ScooterMcTav
I know less than I think
So as a relative newcomer to tubes, I was thrilled with the Jolida JD-302brc integrated I received in trade from another local enthusiast. Compared to every piece of SS gear I had ever owned, I could not believe the clarity of sound my system now delivered. Vocals had an immediacy I had never heard before. Piano, strings, guitar, and other resonant instruments has a lifelike quality that was truly ear-opening.
And please keep in mind my four previous SS amps/receivers were McIntosh, Musical Fidelity, Luxman, and Rotel. Certainly no Mark Levinson in there, but all well regarded gear for the budgetary minded.
The only struggles I continued to have were:
- A midrange glare that could get my tinnitus fired up something fierce
- A scarcity of bass. Not necessarily a lack of slam, but certainly some missing richness or fullness
So like most tube newbies, I started rolling tubes, going through two sets of EL-34, and a set of 6550, before settling on a set of KT88. I also changed the 12AX7 pre tubes, switching between JJ ECC803s and Tung Sol (RI) 12AX7. I just couldn't seem to get things to where I was happy, and various combinations of the tubes varied between harsh and glare-y, and dull and non-exciting.
At the suggestion of some fellow AKers, I tried adding an EQ to the system. It did not help much either, as although I could get the bass up to add some impact, and get the mids down enough not to cause tinnitus, it sounded "wrong". Part of it was the loss of the mid presence, and part of it was the tone-sucking qualities of the EQ (an ADC Sound Shaper 110 Mk II).
I had also tried using a few receivers with pre-outs that I have as a pre for the tube amp, and none really seemed to work. A vintage Rotel was dull. A Sony ES was bland. A newer Marantz was gross. In short, I was convinced that adding a SS pre was the best way to eliminate the parts of the tube sound I liked the best.
So on a lark, an old Proton 1100 SS pre turned up locally. Of excitement was it had capacitance loading for MM cartridges, plus was MM/MC switchable. For the reasonable price of the item, it seemed like a fairly low risk add to my system as an experiment if nothing else. So I hooked all my upstream gear to the pre, and ran the signal into the Jolida's bypass circuit.
Well, surprise of surprises, it sounds fantastic, to the point where I ended up having a five hour listening session yesterday. With its Bass EQ function I was able to get the 10dB bump around 40Hz that makes my speakers sing. With the infrasonic filter, I was able to get some bass while listening to LPs without worrying about dancing woofers. But the best part was that the glorious mids - the wonderful vocal and piano presence that immediately drew me to the tubes - it was still there.
Michael Sweet, Richie Sambora, Dire Straits, and Lonestar - vocals that were clean, present, and full, without tinnitus. Piano, lovely. Beethoven's 9th on a DG pressing - the best it's ever sounded, with the fullness of an orchestra for the first time. Good rumble from a Bach organ LP. Best of all, no excessive harshness on horribly dynamically compressed modern recordings. They didn't sound great, but at least I could listen to them.
When I originally went in search of tube gear, I had read quite a bit about the value of tubes in a pre section versus the value of tubes in the amp section. Although a subject of some debate (what about tubes isn't, really), some suggested that that a tube pre was necessary to get the right harmonics, while some suggested that the interaction between the output tubes and the speakers was where the magic happened.
In my case anyways, the magic was certainly between the output tubes and the speakers. Mid-rich tubey goodness, made even better by sending these tubes a signal that worked better for my speakers and my room.
So in short, my experience has been that even though someone may want an all tube signal chain, using an SS pre-amp is not the stroke of death to the tube amp sound. Possibly the preamp and driver sections of my Jolida integrated are not up to snuff, and I'd appreciate a good quality stand-alone tube preamp better. That being said, the Proton has turned something that was reservedly good into something unreservedly great.
Just wanted to share my experience in the event it may be helpful to others. And now I need to keep my eyes open for a decent quality tube preamp, just to see if it makes great even more greaterest.
And please keep in mind my four previous SS amps/receivers were McIntosh, Musical Fidelity, Luxman, and Rotel. Certainly no Mark Levinson in there, but all well regarded gear for the budgetary minded.
The only struggles I continued to have were:
- A midrange glare that could get my tinnitus fired up something fierce
- A scarcity of bass. Not necessarily a lack of slam, but certainly some missing richness or fullness
So like most tube newbies, I started rolling tubes, going through two sets of EL-34, and a set of 6550, before settling on a set of KT88. I also changed the 12AX7 pre tubes, switching between JJ ECC803s and Tung Sol (RI) 12AX7. I just couldn't seem to get things to where I was happy, and various combinations of the tubes varied between harsh and glare-y, and dull and non-exciting.
At the suggestion of some fellow AKers, I tried adding an EQ to the system. It did not help much either, as although I could get the bass up to add some impact, and get the mids down enough not to cause tinnitus, it sounded "wrong". Part of it was the loss of the mid presence, and part of it was the tone-sucking qualities of the EQ (an ADC Sound Shaper 110 Mk II).
I had also tried using a few receivers with pre-outs that I have as a pre for the tube amp, and none really seemed to work. A vintage Rotel was dull. A Sony ES was bland. A newer Marantz was gross. In short, I was convinced that adding a SS pre was the best way to eliminate the parts of the tube sound I liked the best.
So on a lark, an old Proton 1100 SS pre turned up locally. Of excitement was it had capacitance loading for MM cartridges, plus was MM/MC switchable. For the reasonable price of the item, it seemed like a fairly low risk add to my system as an experiment if nothing else. So I hooked all my upstream gear to the pre, and ran the signal into the Jolida's bypass circuit.
Well, surprise of surprises, it sounds fantastic, to the point where I ended up having a five hour listening session yesterday. With its Bass EQ function I was able to get the 10dB bump around 40Hz that makes my speakers sing. With the infrasonic filter, I was able to get some bass while listening to LPs without worrying about dancing woofers. But the best part was that the glorious mids - the wonderful vocal and piano presence that immediately drew me to the tubes - it was still there.
Michael Sweet, Richie Sambora, Dire Straits, and Lonestar - vocals that were clean, present, and full, without tinnitus. Piano, lovely. Beethoven's 9th on a DG pressing - the best it's ever sounded, with the fullness of an orchestra for the first time. Good rumble from a Bach organ LP. Best of all, no excessive harshness on horribly dynamically compressed modern recordings. They didn't sound great, but at least I could listen to them.
When I originally went in search of tube gear, I had read quite a bit about the value of tubes in a pre section versus the value of tubes in the amp section. Although a subject of some debate (what about tubes isn't, really), some suggested that that a tube pre was necessary to get the right harmonics, while some suggested that the interaction between the output tubes and the speakers was where the magic happened.
In my case anyways, the magic was certainly between the output tubes and the speakers. Mid-rich tubey goodness, made even better by sending these tubes a signal that worked better for my speakers and my room.
So in short, my experience has been that even though someone may want an all tube signal chain, using an SS pre-amp is not the stroke of death to the tube amp sound. Possibly the preamp and driver sections of my Jolida integrated are not up to snuff, and I'd appreciate a good quality stand-alone tube preamp better. That being said, the Proton has turned something that was reservedly good into something unreservedly great.
Just wanted to share my experience in the event it may be helpful to others. And now I need to keep my eyes open for a decent quality tube preamp, just to see if it makes great even more greaterest.
