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Tube Preamp please help me choose

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DenverJW

New Member
Hi Everyone,

Still new here and learning, the help from this site has been amazing! I am trying to choose between 3 Preamplifiers and could use some help again. My power amp's are original Dynaco MK3 monoblocks unmodded and speakers are Wilson Audio Watt2 puppy 3's. I use a Pro-Ject Pre Box s2 digital DAC (that I want to upgrade next) and a U-turn Turntable (also a needs upgrading) I would take a built-in Phono or I can use and outboard one Should I go for a modern Pre like the Schitt Autio or a VTL 2.5 version 1 that is 10 years old? Or my 3rd choice right now is the AR LS-7 because I always wanted to try AR. I have read a Modern Pre is geat with vintage Tubes.

On a side note, I can also buy locally a Musical Fidelity A308CR for a few hundred more or a Quicksilver for about the same price. The budget is under $1,000 and I have no idea what to do. I do know I like a warm musical sound signature and not analytic. I love the holographic thing and a good soundstage. i also have a Mcintosh MC225 that needs more efficient speakers and I'm hoping to use it with that in the future. Crap that's a lot of Pre's to choose from. Any help is greatly appreciated. And I hope everyone is healthy and safe during this Madness. John
 
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Yep, that Pas 3 would be cool, but I am thinking a modern pre will get the best out of my Dynaco and Mcintosh MC225.
 
Can you audition any of those preamps in your system, or at least in a system? I have learned many a time that taking info from reviewers or online postings is not ideal. Your room, your system, your ears all have significant impacts on what works for you. I would not completely rule out a solid state preamp. In my experience, and tube amp has more impact on the sound than a tube preamp. If it was me, all other things equal (they never are) I would probably lean toward the Quicksilver or VTL. You should be able to find a nice used preamp in your price range. Good luck. Enjoy the hunt.
 
I can try some of them, but I have to buy and return. PIA, but probably the smart way to go. Hoping one was a clear standout and I would move in that direction first.
 
My budget can be stretched to $1,200 max, I was hoping someone would say AR LS-7 kicked butt, it's $700. Does anyone know if I would be better off using the built-in Phono in these 10 - 15-year-old Pre's or should I buy something like a Schitt Mani?
 
DenverJW said:
Hi Everyone,

Still new here and learning, the help from this site has been amazing! I am trying to choose between 3 Preamplifiers and could use some help again. My power amp's are original Dynaco MK3 monoblocks unmodded and speakers are Wilson Audio Watt2 puppy 3's. I use a Pro-Ject Pre Box s2 digital DAC (that I want to upgrade next) and a U-turn Turntable (also a needs upgrading) I would take a built-in Phono or I can use and outboard one Should I go for a modern Pre like the Schitt Autio or a VTL 2.5 version 1 that is 10 years old? Or my 3rd choice right now is the AR LS-7 because I always wanted to try AR. I have read a Modern Pre is geat with vintage Tubes.

On a side note, I can also buy locally a Musical Fidelity A308CR for a few hundred more or a Quicksilver for about the same price. The budget is under $1,000 and I have no idea what to do. I do know I like a warm musical sound signature and not analytic. I love the holographic thing and a good soundstage. i also have a Mcintosh MC225 that needs more efficient speakers and I'm hoping to use it with that in the future. Crap that's a lot of Pre's to choose from. Any help is greatly appreciated. And I hope everyone is healthy and safe during this Madness. John
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A PAS3X would fit fine here, it comes with full documentation and has a proven trackrecord.
The RIAA is accurate, with a minimum of service it will serve you a long time.
 
I have also been snooping around for another preamp to have fun with, for a few months now. I am not unhappy with what I have now, but just wanting to have a little fun, but where I can resell when I want and not loose a wad of cash. The LS-7 has been described as being entry level and having a lean/light bass impact. I have read alot, but never owned one. For 700 I think you might have something there. You could experiment with different interconnects, and also do some tube rolling, and see for yourself what it sounds like in your system, and setup. But if it was me, it would have to be in excellent condition, and with no modifications, as petercapo has said. Quite a bit of this used audio equipment gets run through too many owners. If you have to go by pictures, get a shot of the guts inside, front back bottom too. I have owned and repaired at least a dozen Dynaco Pas preamps, I have a couple right now even. I keep buying them and using them because of the cost / performance ratio. And can always get my small investment back when I want. One of the best Pas preamps I had was one of the last production Pas 3x to be produced. Condition was near mint, with epoxy-glass boards, and still had the Telefunken 12AX7 tubes.
 
I've had a Dynaco PAS-4 by Panor tube preamp for many years and have liked it. Like it better than a PAS-3x. The PAS-4 has a more neutral sound to my ears, i.e. not very "tubey" in the classic sense. Uses 6DJ8 tubes in the line stage, I use Amperex JAN 6922. There are a few around but not many. It was produced in the 1990s. It is related to the Sound Valves VTP-100/101 preamps, but somewhat of a redesign.
 
DenverJW said:
Yep, that Pas 3 would be cool, but I am thinking a modern pre will get the best out of my Dynaco and Mcintosh MC225.
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You might of read my recent posts in my PAS thread, if not I finished up (3) different PAS configurations from somewhat stock to full blown gutted replacement. I also have a very nice Conrad Johnson tube preamp and a very highly regarded Luxman CL-38 tube preamp. I recently compared the three PAS builds and was more pleased with the Erhard unit mainly because it reminded me of my expensive preamps I mentioned. I keep using the word clean, it really best describes the sound. I opted to keep tone controls in my Erhard build which my CJ preamp and one of the PAS units do not have. I did replace the stock tone pots with quality replacements though. I find that the tone controls allow me to dial in tracks of music that are lacking certain detail, or to help with speakers that maybe are not giving me the tone balance I desire. The luxman has a single tone control that slightly can add a bit of low frequency while taking away a bit of high, and vise versa.

The main thing I like about the Erhard PAS unit, is how much better the controls are, and also that I was able to remove the stereo dimension control which I really have no use for. The upgraded volume and balance control are super smooth and precise.These things are just my personal preferences and really mean little to what your requirements might be though.
I spent yesterday swapping my ERhard version PAS with my two expensive tube preamps just to see if it continued to perform so well in other systems. The results were a bit shocking, I actually liked the PAS better than the Conrad Johnson PV-8 for tonal quality and the fact I could dial it in on the PAS. The Luxman CL-38 is still the best all around preamp I have ever owned, mainly because every part of it seems to be of the utmost quality and function, sound is so clean and full of detail throughout the frequency range with no background noise at all. It also is stunning to look at, and has a protection circuit that works with not only the power switch, but the source switch also. You get no pops, clicks, or anything associated with switching or adjusting controls. As good as the Luxman is for sound, the Erhard PAS sounded very, very close to it,

Without sophisticated test equipment to record everything I have tested, it is just my ears and frequency measuring app on my phone that I used for this comparison. It's certainly not a reflection on what you would be happy with. But I have a fully restored to stock pair of MK-III"s, fully restored to stock ST-70, Eico HF-87's, Eico HF-89, and Fisher SA-100 to use my PAS preamps with knowing I am very pleased with their performance and that they can hold their own with higher priced preamps. My pretty much stock PAS3X has a bunch of original capacitors, and resistors still in it, although voltages test pretty close to normal, I plan on totally freshening up the stock circuits to see if it improves and if the sound cleans up any.

Just thought I'd share my experience, I have spent a lot of time on this very subject lately good luck with what choice you end up with.

Steve G.
 
petercapo said:
Given @DenverJW 's preferred sonic qualities, which are probably shared by many other folks, I believe it is reasonable to add an observation. I congratulate @RS Steve on the satisfaction he found in building his Erhard preamp. In addition to the accolades from @RS Steve about his Erhard preamp, he also pointed out in his thread that his Erhard preamp is closer to a solid-state sound. I think this is good to know and fits-in with observations I made earlier in this thread (the thread we are in right now). Here's the post by @RS Steve from his thread, with boldface added for emphasis:
Here's the link to the preceding quotation: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...ed-stock-shootout.875289/page-6#post-13712836


And, I'd like to add a comment regarding the following post:


I would endorse the replacement of the original parts in order to reveal more of the sonic potential of the original PAS circuit, provided this is the goal of its owner (there's still something to be said for keeping as many original parts as possible, but that's another discussion). However, given @RS Steve 's affinity for his Erhard, I tend to doubt that he would prefer the original PAS circuit no matter how thoroughly it is restored, given his apparent sonic preferences. Of course, this is his privilege.

I think it is important to bolster the idea that even though the voltages at the various test nodes in the preamp may be correct, or close to correct, the remaining fifty-year-old parts, including the capacitors, resistors, various switches, potentiometers and perhaps even the old wire and deteriorating original solder, have a considerable impact on its sonic quality - I cannot overstate the significance of this.

Such is the plight of fifty-year-old equipment (not just Dynaco). I have heard an original PAS preamp in unrestored condition, and the sound was so bad I had trouble calling it "high fidelity." But, after I restored my PAS according to the original circuit, the sound is clean, well-ordered, and can otherwise be described as having high-end sonics, overall.
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And thanks for clarifying and analyzing my threads and posts, hope you are spell checking them also. :rolleyes:
 
Amazing stuff, thank you everyone!! I think I'm going to go for matched PRE and AMP for my speakers and sell my Dynaco MK3's. Just want to step it up a notch and see what I can hear. Based on these recommendations I'm going to look at the brands recommended and another 2 leaning toward VTL, AR, McCormack, Rogue, and Hegel.
 
Used mine the way they came, completely stock, for a while, then did a complete rebuild only change from stock was getting rid of the selenium rectifier and installation of Dynakitparts bias kit....

After a while I installed the VTA (tubes4hifi) dual octal 6SN7 boards, and that’s the configuration I’ve settled on....

They are outstanding amps, you might find tube amps with better spec sheets, but it’s hard to find a better sounding tube amp in my experience, especially for any where close to the cost of MkIIIs.

Andy
 
Peter:

Note I never made any comments on the results of any changes made in the above post.. because of my approach my 2 amps were built months apart, and I used stock boards that I rebuilt myself plus stock boards ordered from a vendor.

Also used new tubes then switched them over to some vintage tubes....what I settled on is just that, was finished with my tests...

If anyone wants to know my opinions, you’ll have to look up my posts about changing boards, or ask me (-;

Only evaluation was that the MkIIs are outstanding amps.

Regards,
Andy
 
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