• Check out the Annual AK Secret Santa exchange Program, signup before November 23rd in the AK Charities & Christmas forum!

Tubes that sound like ECL86?

slimecity

slimecity

Super Member
This is a bit of a nebelous/noob tube question I realise.

I have a Fountain (NZ) 10 watt amplifier that is apparently based on a Mullard design. It sounds really really nice. The highs are pretty good (a bit rolled-off/grainy, but thats excusable), the mids are clear without being brash. The lows are oh so low, but a bit wallowy (but thats excusable too). Its from the early 70s.

The thing is that I will need to move on from this amp as the ECL86's are pretty much unobtainable, and I dont know if I can be bothered with the PCL86 mod as getting matched PCL86's also seems to be getting difficult now.

The thing is that I have had tube amps before, but none of them sounded as good as this one. I know that speaker matching etc could have also been an issue. I have had a World Audio Designs (now World Designs) EL84 amp, and a Carvin EL34 amp (a 2-channel guitar amp, but it sounded not bad for hifi use). This little amp loves guitar (my favourite instrument) - and when distorted gat comes on, it makes the sound really shine!

I am running this Fountain into Lowly KEF Q80s - and boy does it make them sing. I have truly become a tube convert again - as I had my fully modded Sansui AU-999 running thru these before and it sounded nothing like this.

So I want to ensure that any new tube amp I get sounds good. My experience with the WAD amp kind of made my think that EL84's sound a bit "gruntless" and "soft," I would like to stick to EL34's maybe for the power. But please feel free to correct me on this as maybe the WAD EL84 design wasnt great?

Is there anyone who has had experience with ECL86 and who could compare this favourably in terms of sound signature with other common power tubes? I am after a new tube power amp and am thinking of potentially some of these:

OddWatt (with EL34),

http://en.uraltone.com/kits/hi-fi-ki...e-amp-kit.html (with EL84),

ST-70 KIT (120 VAC)
 

Attachments

  • Fountain1010.gif
    Fountain1010.gif
    132.7 KB · Views: 53
Register to hide this ad
I don't have an answer to your question. But I can honestly say that my 6L6 based switchable SET/SEP sounds better then my HH Scott Stereomaster 200 does. But that it sounds better due to the type of amp it is. It doesn't necessarily have a better tone at all. It's just a better amp. I am also completely unimpressed with the sound from a Dynaco St 70 if that matters.

You're asking a hard question. I hope you get your answer though.
 
The ECL86 does sound different from 12AX7 + 6BQ5. It has a unique sonic signature, which you describe well.

If you like it, I would stick to the ECL86 or the PCL version. Just add a separate 13V heater supply transformer. If matching is difficult, look for a fixed bias design that allows you to bias each tube separately.
 
Dandy said:
The ECL86 does sound different from 12AX7 + 6BQ5. It has a unique sonic signature, which you describe well.
Click to expand...

I KNEW IT!

lols

Im still deciding whether to keep this amp or not. Want to upgrade to maybe a chi-fi EL34 amp, however I just dont want to be disappointed with the sound, after hearing the ECL86.
 
slimecity said:
Want to upgrade to maybe a chi-fi EL34 amp, however I just dont want to be disappointed with the sound, after hearing the ECL86.
Click to expand...

It won't sound the same. (Nothing against Chinese EL34s, as I have some in my Dynaco ST70.) Can you tell us a bit more about your Fountain? Is it this Gemsonic 10-10? https://solidstatevalvetube.weebly.com/fountain-gemsonic.html

If so, I think it looks and probably sounds good. I would not sell it if it was mine. By all means add a Chinese made EL34 to your collection. :)
 
One thing to keep in mind, is tubes tend to last a long time, especially new old stock ones. If you really like this amp, get a quad of old stock tubes and just use it. Odds are you won't need to change a tube for five or more years, at that point who knows if you will still be into this amp.

You definitely won't get good amp for less than a quad of ECL86
 
Dandy said:
It won't sound the same. (Nothing against Chinese EL34s, as I have some in my Dynaco ST70.) Can you tell us a bit more about your Fountain? Is it this Gemsonic 10-10?
Click to expand...
Yes it is.

I do like but mine is beat up. Plus I have a hum on one side - there are four telefunken ECL86s' in there now - the hum follows the tubes when I swap them to the other side. It has Mullard EF86's in the pre-section too.

Perhaps I could just leave the Fountain as is and replace the ECL's with PCLs' in a couple of years? Quads of ECL's are going for stupid money now. I asked two ebay sellers how they matched a PCL quad set they are each selling, one replied: "The tubes were tested for anode voltage as a triode and pentode."

The other one said: "the tubes are matched with Roetest9 tube tester for current and transconductance (Amplification)".

Is one or both of these statements OK in terms of actually getting a fairly safe matched set of PCLs?

These guys have good feedback too. I've otherwise had no luck getting shops to either respond or be willing to supply matched PCL pairs/quads, or ship to NZ.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
Dandy said:
If so, I think it looks and probably sounds good.
Click to expand...
A prior owner has replaced all the existing resistors except for a few. I replaced all electro's with good panasonic FC types. I replaced the crappy little B+ bridge with 4 x IN4007 diodes and yea, it does sound GREAT.
 
Maybe just get a couple of ECL86s for the 'Telefunken' side for now? Even if not matched. Study that link I put up to the Mullard circuit. There's no mention of matched tubes there I think, but other advice on hum.
 
So how do we feel about the assertions from suppliers regarding the PCL86 tubes given above? Would they serve as reassurance that I would get a well-matched quad?

"The tubes were tested for anode voltage as a triode and pentode."

"The tubes are matched with Roetest9 tube tester for current and transconductance (Amplification)".
 
6BM8 is electronically similar with less gain, but you'd need to change the pinout ...

6bm8-6gw8-pinout.jpg


No idea if you get the same sound or not, but that differs even when changing brands, so luck wit it. The new Russians are fairly inexpensive at about $20 a pop.
 
The 6BM8 sounds different to the 6GW8, at least to me, but I haven't A-B tested them on very similar amplifiers. Nothing wrong with the former, which is popular in Japan, I believe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom