Turntable disappointment!!!!!

[racfan9]

I just recently finished my 59 Telefunken console. I wanted to keep it original which meant rebuilding the 504c record player. After I got it all back together I put on one of my favorite lp's pushed the phono button on the radio watched the record drop and then was totally disappointed with the sound quality. I know ceramic will never equal the magnetic cartridge but I sure didn't think it would be this bad. So my questions begin. Is there something I may have done wrong, I didn't replace the needle so that is one thing on my llist to do. The one thing I noticed the most was absolutely no bass. I'm sure since it's ceramic that there is no ground wire, am I right? I have a Dual 1019 that I hooked up and ran thru a phono amp and the sound was outstanding, but like I said I want to keep it original plus if I use a phono amp that uses my only extra input. So if anyone has any idea's or suggestions please fill free and throw them at me.

racfan9

 

[gadget73]

Stylus and possibly the cartridge itself. If its crystal, they can degrade or die with age, shock, and moisture. Ceramic is far more tolerant of this stuff, but may not be immune. There is also usually something that looks a bit like a V shaped "saddle" that the stylus sits against to make the cart do it's thing. if that is worn or broken, it won't sound right. I would give some consideration to trying to convert it to an MM style for better performance and safer use with your records. If thats not stereo, its not good to play stereo LPs on it. You can feed the MM pre directly into where the stock ceramic input is, so it won't tie up an input.

 

[media]

the stylus would be the first culprit. you really don't know how worn it is unless you look under really strong magnification.

 

[Frank Sol]

Stop !!

Do not put anymore of your fav LPs on this TT until you remedy the stylus problem

 

[melofelo]

maybe the stylus suspension has hardened ? i'd definitely try a new moving magnet cartridge instead...even a budget model will be kinder to your records.

 

[charles 1973]

I'd put a new proper ceramic cartridge on it at least if their avaliable. The SQ of a good ceramic cartridge might surprise you with carefull adjustments to the tone controlls. Even consider switching to a MM Cartridge and add a Phono stage inside the cabinet if it can be done. Seems to me the old crysal cartridges just plugged into any standard high level input like Aux, Tuner ect.

 

[jleon92f]

Test lp all the time on an untested record player! Go to Thrift and buy a few unwanted lps and use these for test lps!:thmbsp:

 

[racfan9]

One other thing I meant to ask about this record player. Is there a tonearm wieght adjustment on these older players?

 

[royphil345]

There's often a spring under the tonearm or somewhere at the rear of the tonearm to adjust tracking force. Tighter spring = less tracking force.

Could one channel be hooked up out of phase anywhere? That can cause the bass to drop out.

 

[racfan9]

royphil345, I don't think so, since it sounds great with plenty of bass when I had the Dual hooked up to it.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Stylus and possibly the cartridge itself. If its crystal, they can degrade or die with age, shock, and moisture. Ceramic is far more tolerant of this stuff, but may not be immune. There is also usually something that looks a bit like a V shaped "saddle" that the stylus sits against to make the cart do it's thing. if that is worn or broken, it won't sound right. I would give some consideration to trying to convert it to an MM style for better performance and safer use with your records. If thats not stereo, its not good to play stereo LPs on it. You can feed the MM pre directly into where the stock ceramic input is, so it won't tie up an input.

I know you want to keep it orginal, but you should follow this advise, replace the cartridge with a new MM cartridge, I don't think your going to find any of them old ceramic ones to sound that good. To be honest you won't hardly even see the cartridge as those old arms usually hid the cartridges pretty well.

 

[bobaloniny]

Ceramic can sound ok, given its operating to its best advantage.

 

[Pio1980]

I'd go with a diamond tipped ceramic replacement if for no other reason than to keep it simple and close to original.

 

[beatcomber]

These old machines have their charm, but I wouldn't expect the highest of fi from a record changer in a 1959 console...

 

[Nat]

If you have no bass, I'd check to see that the channels aren't out of phase (I'm assuming that this is a stereo set up). Generally the bass from ceramic cartridges isn't their weakness.

 

[orthophonic]

Ihave the same Tele console, I replaced the ceramic cartridge with a Stanton 500 and
added a small preamp, works and sounds great.

 

[racfan9]

Well call me stupid......It's amazing how much better this turntable sounds when connected to the correct input. lol! Anyway I had the table plugged into the remote balance control input, not sure how it could even play but it was. So now disappointment level is come down a few notches, but still doesn't compare to my Dual 1019 so I guess I've got a decision to make. I have thought about an earlier Dual such as the 1006 I'm assuming those would be a Magnetic cartridge. Again thanks for all your input.

racfan9

 

[catman]

G'day all, as an aside on ceramic cartridges and such, it is interesting that during my childhood years our familiy's 'stereogram' used an old BSR record charger with a stereo ceramic cartridge into an early (if primitive) transistor amplifier, and it produced good satisfying sound quality.

From an electronic viewpoint ceramic/ crystal cartridges need to be loaded into an unequalised but very high impedance input (at least 1 Megohm) such as was routine with the valve circuitry of the day.

Modern day electronics can mimic the same thing by using field effect transistors to produce the same high impedance input requirement. I'm almost tempted to resurrect our old stereogram, just to see what can be achieved. :scratch2: Regards, Felix aka catman.