Turntable Oil

[cafe latte]

Mobil DTE-Light is what Sony recommends, for their direct drive turntables. In lieu of Sony OL-2K factory oil. Which I can't find, anymore.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30ml-Mobil...824921?hash=item2627a42099:g:m2YAAOSw7kxdRCD9

It is a slightly lighter oil than the Technics but mot much.

 

[cafe latte]

I use 3n1 oil and be done with it,no issues .

Depends which 3 in 1. The blue which is for fans will be ok, it is mineral and it will gum but specs are fine. Normal 3 in 1 is way too light and is not formulated to hold a film and work in a bearing it is fine for freeing a stuck lock not a turntable bearing oil at all, if you are using the latter version of 3 in 1 you will be wearing your bearings and they will be more noisy for sure.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

I am far from an expert on this, but what I know was due to a lot of research I did a while back re Technics oils. Also I know someone who works in the industry so had a few long and probably boring for him conversations. In a nutshell here is some of what I learned. Oils are made to work in very specific areas with very specific properties. Like the ability to absorb water or not some areas this is a good thing, not so good on my lathe bed. Still talking lathe beds thin is not so good as oil runs off thick means it stays where you put it, bit like bar oil on a chain saw. This is all obvious, but still talking viscosity bearing like out turntable bearings will be made with a specific viscosity in mind. The clearance of each bearing needs an oil that will maintain a film without breaking down for the entire height of the bearing. Too thin and the oil film wont form or it will break down before the top of bearing, too thick and film wont make it to top either, al this is the first point viscosity is very important the bearing will have been designed for a specific weight of oil.
Then mineral of synthetic. For our purpose it is basically the synthetic does not varnish like mineral. If turntable bearing has sintered bronze ie oil goes in pores of metal in bearing you really dont want oil forming a varnish.
Turntable only get used at one temperature unlike car engine which gets hot as it runs so we dont need a multigrade oil. Only turntable I know of recommending car oil in bearing is Michell who say use Mobil 1. They are a small family owned firm so my though is they dont understand oil. I contacted Michel twice to discuss oil with them also sent an email no response. My though is they know but mistake is a bit embarrassing. Friend replaced the oil in Michell with a monograde machine oil of correct viscosity for bearing and now its spins longer so seems his oil has less friction, and it wont absorb water either. The only other odd oils I know of is the Linn black oil and someone mentioned a turntable with gear oil in the bearing (stinky!!). Most from what I can tell use between iso 32 and iso 68 synthetic machine oils.
There is more to it but that is the nuts and blots of what I learned in my research.
Cheers
Chris

 

[heyraz]

Three lubricants I considered for my TD-124's Sintered Bronze spindle and motor bushings.
I chose La-Co because it's a Turbine oil and I read Turbine Oil works well with Sintered Bronze.
Sintered Bronze (Oilite) Bushings have pores. The oil is "sucked into" the pores when cool and pushed out when hot (friction while spinning).
Sintered Bronze Bushings are described as being "self lubricating".

Super Lube looked good but I was uncertain how well a Silicon based oil would work with the TD-124's Sintered Bronze Bushings ( didn't want to "clog the pores").

Remington Rem Oil was out because it contains Teflon...didn't want to chance clogging the Sintered Bronze pores.

 

[cafe latte]

Three lubricants I considered for my TD-124's Sintered Bronze spindle and motor bushings. View attachment 1639258
I chose La-Co because it's a Turbine oil and I read Turbine Oil works well with Sintered Bronze.
Sintered Bronze (Oilite) Bushings have pores. The oil is "sucked into" the pores when cool and pushed out when hot (friction while spinning).
Sintered Bronze Bushings are described as being "self lubricating".
View attachment 1639261
Super Lube looked good but I was uncertain how well a Silicon based oil would work with the TD-124's Sintered Bronze Bushings ( didn't want to "clog the pores").
View attachment 1639298
Remington Rem Oil was out because it contains Teflon...didn't want to chance clogging the Sintered Bronze pores.
View attachment 1639277

Turbine oil is good, compressor oil too.
Chris

 

[gadget73]

I recommended light hydraulic oil as it has all the property's that one would need for a TT spindle.

Thats actually what I'm using. The originally specified oil for my Thorens crosses to an ISO 46 hydraulic oil. I have a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff at work that gets used in fork lifts so I brought some home.


this whole discussion reminds me of "oil wars" on car forums.

 

[GChief]

Bobs the Oil Guy

 

[JayPare]

I'm up there in Canada and looking for something ~ISO68 or SAE20 and synthetic like @cafe latte recommends. I was gonna buy something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Powermate-P018-0084SP-100-Synthetic-Compressor/dp/B01LZBNQ9W/
But comments are saying it's lighter than ISO68. Can someone recommend something I can get on Amazon.ca? Here's a few other I was considering:

https://www.amazon.ca/DEWALT-D55001-Synthetic-Compressor-Quart/dp/B0008GLW9Y/ (no mention of the weight)
https://www.amazon.ca/Bostitch-PREM...PREMCOMOIL32OZ-Compressor-Oils/dp/B00275H6T4/ (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)
https://www.amazon.ca/Senco-PC0344-Ounce-Compressor-Oil/dp/B0019VMCQO (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)

TIA

 

[cafe latte]

I'm up there in Canada and looking for something ~ISO68 or SAE20 and synthetic like @cafe latte recommends. I was gonna buy something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Powermate-P018-0084SP-100-Synthetic-Compressor/dp/B01LZBNQ9W/
But comments are saying it's lighter than ISO68. Can someone recommend something I can get on Amazon.ca? Here's a few other I was considering:

https://www.amazon.ca/DEWALT-D55001-Synthetic-Compressor-Quart/dp/B0008GLW9Y/ (no mention of the weight)
https://www.amazon.ca/Bostitch-PREM...PREMCOMOIL32OZ-Compressor-Oils/dp/B00275H6T4/ (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)
https://www.amazon.ca/Senco-PC0344-Ounce-Compressor-Oil/dp/B0019VMCQO (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)

TIA

Contact the company and ask, most will have a number and will give oil specs. iso 46 and 68 are both in the sae 20w range either will do just fine for a turntable spindle.
Chris

 

[JayPare]

I'm up there in Canada and looking for something ~ISO68 or SAE20 and synthetic like @cafe latte recommends. I was gonna buy something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Powermate-P018-0084SP-100-Synthetic-Compressor/dp/B01LZBNQ9W/
But comments are saying it's lighter than ISO68. Can someone recommend something I can get on Amazon.ca? Here's a few other I was considering:

https://www.amazon.ca/DEWALT-D55001-Synthetic-Compressor-Quart/dp/B0008GLW9Y/ (no mention of the weight)
https://www.amazon.ca/Bostitch-PREM...PREMCOMOIL32OZ-Compressor-Oils/dp/B00275H6T4/ (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)
https://www.amazon.ca/Senco-PC0344-Ounce-Compressor-Oil/dp/B0019VMCQO (doesn't seems to be synthetic and no weight mentionned)

TIA

Update on this. Dewalt is a ISO-100 viscosity oil (equivalent to 30 weight (SAE) synthetic, non-detergent oil.

Source: https://www.dewalt.ca/en-ca/product-repository/products-dewalt/2016/03/31/20/21/d55001 (FAQ section)

Dewalt discarded then. Still checking for the others.

 

[JayPare]

Update on this. Dewalt is a ISO-100 viscosity oil (equivalent to 30 weight (SAE) synthetic, non-detergent oil.

Source: https://www.dewalt.ca/en-ca/product-repository/products-dewalt/2016/03/31/20/21/d55001 (FAQ section)

Dewalt discarded then. Still checking for the others.

Powermate is ISO68, just confirmed with a quick call. I will go with it! Thanks everyone!

 

[Max D.]

An unlikely lubricant, Permatex Silicone Brake Lubricant. It was during the peak of the pandemic, during one of the lockdowns, I was in need of lubricant and couldn't source what was recommended in the user manual of my KP1022 (Lubriplate Aero). I started experimenting with what I had in the house, and this green silicone-based stuff turned out to be well-suited for the task. It's been almost 2 years and the plater is still spinning smoothly.

 

[MisterDK]

Here is a pic of the spindle after all the rust was removed and brown milky oil cleaned off. Pitting is clear.
View attachment 1637976

Old thread but since it’s back up - I have a question about this.. Chris, is this an automotive engine part which had “brown milky oil” on it? If so, it tells me just one thing - and it’s not that the engine oil attracted water.. Blown head gasket, cracked head or cylinder. Water from cooling system mixing with engine oil and becoming emulsified. Something similar can also happen with bad brake servos when brake fluid is sucked into the engine - emulsification.. Sure is what it sounds like to me. I’ve seen it many times as an auto mechanic in a prior life.. And yeah; running emulsified oil will and does cause rust and pitting - but it’s not caused by motor oil. Oil is not hygroscopic - and motor oil “detergent” isn’t either - it just helps keep tiny, solid particles in suspension. Anyway - I live in a very dry area, too..

BTW - I recently looked up the lube specs for the Russco table I put together. This thing has a 3/4” steel platter shaft spinning in a big pair of Oilites. The Russco manual says to use “any standard grade 30 weight motor oil”. Nothing fancy, nothing about non detergent. Now, this was on a radio station broadcast table, intended to be up and running 24/7 - with minimal maintenance. The platter bearing assembly has minimal (practically no) wear and this table is probably from mid 1970’s. With regular motor oil. I treated mine to full synthetic. Should be good for another 50 years with periodic maintenance..

If anyone really wants to buy and use fancier oil - go for it.. But, I doubt you’ll ever see any difference in wear or hear any difference in sound..

 

[NoTransistors]

My home borders on a Florida swamp.
Snake oil, anyone?

 

[MisterDK]

My home borders on a Florida swamp.
Snake oil, anyone?

Gator oil !! - and, it’s non-detergent..

 

[NoTransistors]

Additives are not an issue for a slow-moving, room-temperature platter bearing or drive wheel bushing. This changes with motor bushings that get sort of toasty.while supporting a chromed armature spinning at over 1,600 RPM.

 

[cafe latte]

Old thread but since it’s back up - I have a question about this.. Chris, is this an automotive engine part which had “brown milky oil” on it? If so, it tells me just one thing - and it’s not that the engine oil attracted water.. Blown head gasket, cracked head or cylinder. Water from cooling system mixing with engine oil and becoming emulsified. Something similar can also happen with bad brake servos when brake fluid is sucked into the engine - emulsification.. Sure is what it sounds like to me. I’ve seen it many times as an auto mechanic in a prior life.. And yeah; running emulsified oil will and does cause rust and pitting - but it’s not caused by motor oil. Oil is not hygroscopic - and motor oil “detergent” isn’t either - it just helps keep tiny, solid particles in suspension. Anyway - I live in a very dry area, too..

BTW - I recently looked up the lube specs for the Russco table I put together. This thing has a 3/4” steel platter shaft spinning in a big pair of Oilites. The Russco manual says to use “any standard grade 30 weight motor oil”. Nothing fancy, nothing about non detergent. Now, this was on a radio station broadcast table, intended to be up and running 24/7 - with minimal maintenance. The platter bearing assembly has minimal (practically no) wear and this table is probably from mid 1970’s. With regular motor oil. I treated mine to full synthetic. Should be good for another 50 years with periodic maintenance..

If anyone really wants to buy and use fancier oil - go for it.. But, I doubt you’ll ever see any difference in wear or hear any difference in sound..

It is a turntable spindle that has been lubed with engine oil.
Engine oil has emulsifying agents that attract water. In a hot engine this us not a problem, but in an open turntable bearing which runs cold it is a problem.
The engine oil had gone milky and brown and spindle pitted
Chris

 

[NoTransistors]

Engine oil will do that when the head gasket is blown.
But a turntable has no antifreeze to emulsify the oil.
Nor a head gasket.

 

[BillWojo]

Lots of water can enter the crankcase of an engine when it's first started up as water vapor. Ever notice all the "smoke" coming from a cold engine at start up? It's water vapor due to incomplete combustion. As the engine warms up this ceases. Piston rings always leak a few percent, so every cold start there is a certain amount of water that enters the crankcase and mixes with the oil.
People that drive short distances every day without getting the engine hot enough to burn off the water will have issues with "milky" oil, it's a common occurrence.
The emulsifier in the oil is to prevent the water from collecting in the oil pan where it would be covered by the oil and never burn off. By mixing with the oil it can "burn off" when the engine is at operating temperature.
@Amperex has it right, engine oils have a lot of additives that are not useful for a turntable. I use hydraulic oil instead, the few additives it contains such as anti wear and anti rust are additives I want in my oil anyway.

BillWojo

 

[NoTransistors]

I do use non-detergent oil in my Dual repairs, but still believe detergent oil can be used without compromising the repair.