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Turntable Recommendations

If you're buying a starter deck, you don't need to be worrying about VTA. Seriously.

This is the danger of AK -- you will get lots of advice and opinions about things that don't really matter if you're just starting out. Well-intentioned folks, granted. But they'll lead you down a rathole before you've realized it.

As they say, KISS.
 
bangsezmax said:
If you're buying a starter deck, you don't need to be worrying about VTA. Seriously.

This is the danger of AK -- you will get lots of advice and opinions about things that don't really matter if you're just starting out. Well-intentioned folks, granted. But they'll lead you down a rathole before you've realized it.

As they say, KISS.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Just for giggles, I ran the VTA through the entire range of adjustment on my deck that has provision for it. There was a difference, but nowhere near as much as I thought there would be. And, it didn't do much of anything to the stereo separation, either.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Here are pics of the tables your not POS $300 "new" entry level decks would have to compete against to get my dollars. Again, both purchased for less than $350, the KD500 about four yrs ago, the KD770D about two yrs ago. But I did see and mention to another member here, a KD770D sell on eBay for $345 about 6 months ago. The deals are still out there for those interested and willing to have a little patience and do the due diligence to find one. It's really not that hard, just set your eBay account to alert you when a possible candidate comes up for sale, that's really all it takes
Click to expand...

I agree. I have a KD-770D, a KP-880DII (in my avatar) and Pioneer PL- 30L. I paid less than $400 for each of them. All terrific turntables.

Jon
 
Yeah, I've got the Technics EPA-500 arm where you can adjust VTA while listening in real time. With a highly sensitive (read: expensive) cart, you can hear very subtle differences. But not near as much as people make it out to be.
 
Wrong forum to ask about new tables???
Of the three you mention, I would only consider the MH and Rega.
The Rega is a solidly built table, nice choice - especially if you do not intend to change carts.
I have a 2.2 (going on 5+ years now) that I highly recommend in this price range. Better designed than a Project in it's class, it has adjustable VTA to accommodate a wider range of carts (Rega does not).
A quiet/nimble/trouble free table. Weak point is the supplied Tracker cart...I would upgrade when possible...not a bad cart, just not as good as others at it's price point.
Now, stop hunting and buy something!!!!!:D
 
bangsezmax said:
If you're buying a starter deck, you don't need to be worrying about VTA. Seriously.

This is the danger of AK -- you will get lots of advice and opinions about things that don't really matter if you're just starting out. Well-intentioned folks, granted. But they'll lead you down a rathole before you've realized it.

As they say, KISS.
Click to expand...
Thats pretty reassuring. I find it interesting that this thread turned into a rally against millennials. Anyway, replacing the cartridge on a turntable without VTA adjustment wouldnt really bea problem?
 
Slick Willie said:
Wrong forum to ask about new tables???
Of the three you mention, I would only consider the MH and Rega.
The Rega is a solidly built table, nice choice - especially if you do not intend to change carts.
I have a 2.2 (going on 5+ years now) that I highly recommend in this price range. Better designed than a Project in it's class, it has adjustable VTA to accommodate a wider range of carts (Rega does not).
A quiet/nimble/trouble free table. Weak point is the supplied Tracker cart...I would upgrade when possible...not a bad cart, just not as good as others at it's price point.
Now, stop hunting and buy something!!!!!:D
Click to expand...
I appreciate the push :)
I'm trying to decide now between the MMF-2.2 and 1.5. Each have benefits and drawbacks. So far the 1.5 is in the lead because of the removable headshell and 78 speed (I have some shellac). How would one determine which cartridges would work on a given arm?
 
dehost00 said:
I appreciate the push :)
I'm trying to decide now between the MMF-2.2 and 1.5. Each have benefits and drawbacks. So far the 1.5 is in the lead because of the removable headshell and 78 speed (I have some shellac). How would one determine which cartridges would work on a given arm?
Click to expand...

Ha! You switched gears on me!
The only thing the 2.1 and 1.5 have in common is the MH name. I can't in good faith recommend the 1.5. You're talking entry audiophile vs upper (?) hipster class.
How often will you spin the 78's? Is it worth the drop in quality for the occasional spin/curiosity?
I vote to go with a nice vintage table if 78 is now a must, or the 2.2 and a cheap vintage for the 78's.
I see a long journey if the criteria keeps changing.
Best of luck!
 
dehost00 said:
Thats pretty reassuring. I find it interesting that this thread turned into a rally against millennials. Anyway, replacing the cartridge on a turntable without VTA adjustment wouldnt really bea problem?
Click to expand...
You'll be fine.
Most of my 'tables don't have VTA adjustment, and I don't even really worry about it.

And, the rallying against millennials and all things that happen to be new and/or are made in China are just standard operating procedure for certain members. Just learn to ignore it.:thumbsup:
 
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Slick Willie said:
Ha! You switched gears on me!
The only thing the 2.1 and 1.5 have in common is the MH name. I can't in good faith recommend the 1.5. You're talking entry audiophile vs upper (?) hipster class.
How often will you spin the 78's? Is it worth the drop in quality for the occasional spin/curiosity?
I vote to go with a nice vintage table if 78 is now a must, or the 2.2 and a cheap vintage for the 78's.
I see a long journey if the criteria keeps changing.
Best of luck!
Click to expand...
I wouldnt call it a change in criteria, but if they are features of a quality deck, then that makes it more attractive to me. What makes the 1.5 of a lower quality than the 2.2 in your opinion? You might know something I dont
 
I have met many of baby boomers that make that Millennial look like she has a PHD. As far as the starter tables many of us had them in our youths, but they were dirt cheap back then, and finding a really good used table back then cheap was not going to happen as vinyl was the means for listening to music. When vinyl lost its way TOTL tables were everywhere dirt cheap so anyone that wanted one of those great tables could now afford them. Now the price of those starter tables leave most of us that purchased really good tables for far less than what the starter tables are going for with a strong dislike. Most of the people here have decades of experience so when some new member ask about getting a table, we all base our thoughts and replies on decades of past experience with good tables and most of us have those tables and probably got them for very reasonable prices. I have never paid the price for a really good table that one of these new starter tables go for, as many of my good tables I purchased cost less than a couple of hundred, and some less than 30 dollars, with good carts. So when members here ask these questions and wonder why the older members answer the way they do, its not just because they are closed minded, but more likely because they have much more experience, and have been down the path that the new members are now starting.
 
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beat_truck said:
You'll be fine.
Most of my 'tables don't have VTA adjustment, and I don't even really worry about it.

And, the rallying against millennials and all things that happen to be new and/or are made in China are just standard operating procedure for certain members. Just learn to ignore it.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Adjustable VTA may not have been of import to you, and if you select carts carefully (based on height) it may not be.
But on my 2.2 when I went from the low profile Tracker to the 2M Blue, it sure came in handy!
And I am not anti-millennial, but truth be truth!
 
dehost00 said:
I wouldnt call it a change in criteria, but if they are features of a quality deck, then that makes it more attractive to me. What makes the 1.5 of a lower quality than the 2.2 in your opinion? You might know something I dont
Click to expand...

First, they are made to different price points. Marketed to different market segments.
Different materials and manufacturing plants.
I am not suggesting that the 1.5 is junk....but it ain't the 2.2...or 2.3 for sure!
You could do a lot worse that the 1.5.
 
Slick Willie said:
Adjustable VTA may not have been of import to you, and if you select carts carefully (based on height) it may not be.
But on my 2.2 when I went from the low profile Tracker to the 2M Blue, it sure came in handy!
And I am not anti-millennial, but truth be truth!
Click to expand...
If you can tell that much of a difference in sound with a minor change in VTA, I can understand needing to adjust it. I just don't hear enough change to worry about a couple MMs of height difference. As long as the arm is relatively level, I call it good. That's just my opinion and maybe I'm just not very picky.

BTW, I wasn't trying to argue or disagree with you. Actually, it was just a coincidence that your post was before mine.
 
Slick Willie said:
Adjustable VTA may not have been of import to you, and if you select carts carefully (based on height) it may not be.
But on my 2.2 when I went from the low profile Tracker to the 2M Blue, it sure came in handy!
And I am not anti-millennial, but truth be truth!
Click to expand...
I was thinking of throwing a Nagaoka MP-110 on whatever I buy. I hear only good things about it. Sounds like the 2.2 might be the way to go then..
 
beat_truck said:
If you can tell that much of a difference in sound with a minor change in VTA, I can understand needing to adjust it. I just don't hear enough change to worry about a couple MMs of height difference. As long as the arm is relatively level, I call it good. That's just my opinion and maybe I'm just not very picky.

BTW, I wasn't trying to argue or disagree with you. Actually, it was just a coincidence that your post was before mine.
Click to expand...

All cool.
VTA is one of those things that can divide, well that and anti skate.
I don't see fixed VTA as a deal breaker, but the ability to adjust is nice. Especially with some higher profile modern carts and the move to 180/200 gram vinyl.
I try to adjust to about 140 gram vinyl as most of what I spin is vintage.
But whatever works for ya' is fine.
 
dehost00 said:
I was thinking of throwing a Nagaoka MP-110 on whatever I buy. I hear only good things about it. Sounds like the 2.2 might be the way to go then..
Click to expand...

The 2.2 will stay with you longer if you do upgrades on the rest of your system in the future.
The 1.5 would probably be adequate for where you are?
 
Whoa whoa whoa -- be aware that if you want to play 78s, that's a whole 'nother level of complexity that you are selecting.

You can NOT play 78s with a regular stylus -- it will sound like dog poop and will toast your stylus quickly. 78s need a wider stylus tip that can track heavier. Not to mention, you'd want a mono switch option or else you're going to hear more phasey wash than you will music.

78s were designed to be played on gear that was very, very different from modern turntables. The fact that 78s can be played on some modern decks is a function of retrofitting said decks. And there are levels of compromise and specialized equipment needed to go down that road.

If you're following the KISS rule, leave 78s out of the equation for now. Trust me on this.
 
OK, imagine the arm being too high in the back, the VTA would have the tip of the stylus "digging into" the vinyl rather than letting the vinyl glide under the stylus. Thus causing excellerated undue wear on both the stylus and the vinyl even if you can't hear the difference, though I would bet sybilance could be an issue on certain albums. At least this issue can be dealt with using cartridge shims.

Then there's the opposite end of the issue, the arm being too low in the back. Sure some arms may allow shimming, but most entry level decks the arm mount is a molded part of the plinth. At least this issue isn't "as" detrimental in terms of wear, but will affect tracking with possible sybilance issues. And if too severe could cause the cartridge to drag in the rear on anything but a perfectly flat record lifting the stylus out of the groove.

If you're looking for an excuse to short change yourself on the deck there are plenty here that will give you that advice, but why when there's no financial reason to do so.
 
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