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Turntable upgrade advice sought

F

Floydy

New Member
Hello,

A little while ago I got back into vinyl after a 40 year hiatus. Wasn't sure if I'd stick with it so invested modestly in a new Audio Technica AT-LP120 turntable. I also bought an early '80's Sony ES amp that was in near perfect condition after a few squirts of deoxit in the pots. I connect the amp to a pair of Sonique SA4 floor standing loudspeakers from the 90's that I brought out to the US with me from Australia. You likely haven't heard of Sonique but they had a great following back in the day.

I've since added about 200 LP's to my collection, many of them new 180g pressings. Its seems the bug has bit and stuck. I am really enjoying the sound of these records and consider it a significant improvement over streaming audio which had become my go to medium (hard to beat Amazon's music collection!).

I really like the amp and speakers but am thinking its time for a turntable upgrade. I am considering two options and would appreciate any opinions on either path.

Option 1: Upgrade the LP-120. At the end of the day, this isn't an awful table, looks new and works well. I have been able to eliminate any motor rumble, the geometry of the tone arm is spot on and even the anti-skate works on mine. Considering just upgrading this with an Audio-Technica VM540ML headshell/cartridge combo, a high quality platter mat and maybe a record stabilizer weight. Total cost US $340. I would also bridge out the inbuilt pre-amp / low pass filter that is used by the USB circuit and not needed in a pure analog setup where the amp has MM/MC inputs. There is a great YouTube video that uses sound wave data to prove that the low pass filter rolls off higher frequencies needlessly.

Option 2: Buy a used Technics SL-1200 MK3D in (claimed) excellent condition (quite a few around from Japan currently) and add the same cartridge as above. Total cost US $800 with some risk associated with buying a used table with unknown history.

Money isn't really the driver here. So money aside, is there really likely to be a discernible difference sonically between a real SL-1200 in good working order and an LP-120 with the common complaints (rumble, anti-skate, pre-amp, mat) fixed, and both running the same decent, mid-range cartridge?

Thanks in advance for your opinions!
 
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I couldn't tell you what the sonic differences would be, but I'd say that the SL1200 would give you a turntable for a good part of your life - I'm not sure that the AT will be so durable. I have an SL1200 Mk5 (which I bought used) and it is built like a tank, has rock-steady speed and is absolutely silent. The arm seems work well with a wide range of cartridges from high-compliance to almost low-compliance. If you do get a used SL1200, look for one that has had home-use only and hasn't been used by a DJ.
 
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The SL1200 is a legend and discussed here endlessly. Another direction you could go would be any of the so-called Super OEMs, including the Pioneer PLX-1000, Reloop 7000, AT1240, and several others, all of which are used by professional DJs and home users. The Pioneer PLX-1000 is very well-reviewed by professionals and can be had for $600-700 brand new with warranty. Last, Technics is selling a brand new SL1200Mk7 that costs $1000 but is, as they say, a genuine chip off of the old block.

Just a few thoughts and options to consider. YMMV.
 
DavidTT said:
The SL1200 is a legend and discussed here endlessly. Another direction you could go would be any of the so-called Super OEMs, including the Pioneer PLX-1000, Reloop 7000, AT1240, and several others, all of which are used by professional DJs and home users. The Pioneer PLX-1000 is very well-reviewed by professionals and can be had for $600-700 brand new with warranty. Last, Technics is selling a brand new SL1200Mk7 that costs $1000 but is, as they say, a genuine chip off of the old block.

Just a few thoughts and options to consider. YMMV.
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DavidTT, Thanks for the POV. I don't disagree that the new market is worth looking at. To be honest, I find the current new market a bit confusing for someone wanting to take the next step up. Using price point as a guideline, the next step up seems to be things like Rega's and Pro-Jects ($500 - $1,500). These look horrible (IMHO) and more importantly very few reviews ever talk about sonic excellence, I still hear gripes about motor noise and electrical hum and get no real sense that spending $500 - $1,500 gets me something that is clearly sonically superior than an upgraded LP-120. There are likely some excellent tables in the >$2,000 category but that's not a price point I'm willing to entertain. The new PLX-1000 and SL-1200 MK7 seem interesting but what really throws me about these models is the near total emphasis on them being a DJ table. My usage profile is about as different from that of a DJ as is possible, so I when all of the features listed by the manufacturer seem to emphasize DJ needs, I'm thinking, why on earth would I buy one? I find myself gravitating back to looking for a good vintage table made during the halcyon days of Vinyl and giving it some TLC. I know that older SL-1200's also seem to emphasize DJ use but I also see much more acceptance by the audiophile genre. I also like the look of some Sansui models, such as the 717 or 929 from the late 70's / early '80's but worry about finding parts compared to the ease of finding parts for an SL-1200
 
My journey has led me to vintage, specifically Thorens sprung models (TD-160 and TD-145 in my case). I've been very happy with Thorens machines and they not only sound great to me but also engage the gadget-lover and tinkerer in me as well. Some of the more popular vintage models have cult followings and there are machines, parts, an aftermarket, and expertise to connect with to keep them ship shape. My comments about Super OEMs and the like were made mostly because I gathered you were looking mostly at such machines (SL1200 and derivatives).

If you are like many of us, you'll meander in many directions in the phono world over time.


Floydy said:
DavidTT, Thanks for the POV. I don't disagree that the new market is worth looking at. To be honest, I find the current new market a bit confusing for someone wanting to take the next step up. Using price point as a guideline, the next step up seems to be things like Rega's and Pro-Jects ($500 - $1,500). These look horrible (IMHO) and more importantly very few reviews ever talk about sonic excellence, I still hear gripes about motor noise and electrical hum and get no real sense that spending $500 - $1,500 gets me something that is clearly sonically superior than an upgraded LP-120. There are likely some excellent tables in the >$2,000 category but that's not a price point I'm willing to entertain. The new PLX-1000 and SL-1200 MK7 seem interesting but what really throws me about these models is the near total emphasis on them being a DJ table. My usage profile is about as different from that of a DJ as is possible, so I when all of the features listed by the manufacturer seem to emphasize DJ needs, I'm thinking, why on earth would I buy one? I find myself gravitating back to looking for a good vintage table made during the halcyon days of Vinyl and giving it some TLC. I know that older SL-1200's also seem to emphasize DJ use but I also see much more acceptance by the audiophile genre. I also like the look of some Sansui models, such as the 717 or 929 from the late 70's / early '80's but worry about finding parts compared to the ease of finding parts for an SL-1200
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Thought I'd share how this turned out. I went ahead and upgraded the LP-120 with a new AT VM540ML cartridge, new mat, new counterweight and bypassed the pre-amp. Plugged it in and for my trouble was greeted with a banshee screech that nearly blew the amp. I have clearly screwed up something when I bypassed the pre-amp. Not the fault of the LP-120 but I'm done messing with it. I couldn't get comfortable with a used SL-1200 because its just too hard to assess the condition and history of a machine that is up to 40 years old sight unseen on eBay. Took a close look at the new SL-1200MK7 and Pioneer PLX-1000. My impression is that both of these are OK but really are "wannabes" that fall short of the original build standard. Plastic where there should be metal, flimsy switches, etc.- felt built to a price not build to a standard. Looked at the new SL-1200G. This pushed all the right buttons with me and is clearly the true heir to the original SL-1200 lineage but at $3,999 it's more than I'm willing to spend on a TT. Settled on the new SL-1210GR ($1,600) as a compromise I can comfortably live with. Better than the MK-7, not quite as good as the G but overall a very nice table for home use IMO.
 
Welcome to AK and enjoy your new SL table. Add your AT cart and you should be good to go.
 
Personally, I would have gone with the SL-1500C, just because it looks like a home TT, and not a DJ deck. But that's just me.
I'm running a 40+ year old SL-1800, so I'd say you're probably good to go for some time. Congrats on the new table!!
 
justjed2 said:
Personally, I would have gone with the SL-1500C, just because it looks like a home TT, and not a DJ deck. But that's just me.
I'm running a 40+ year old SL-1800, so I'd say you're probably good to go for some time. Congrats on the new table!!
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I did consider the SL-1500C however my impression was that from a build quality standpoint it’s more akin to the MK7 minus pitch control whereas the GR just seems a better built table even though admittedly it has some features that a home user may not need. The 1500 is also semi auto and I personally prefer fully manual. I’m excited to get it!
 
Floydy,
Congrats on your new table. I myself was in your shoes, last year, looking for a table that suited my needs. I agree with your opinion on the "new" world of audio tables. They have the appearance of not being complete. The reviews on sound quality itself is rather lackluster. After many years of great service from my B&o 8002. I had to shelve it until i could locate a replacement cart or some one who could repair it. (The rubber suspension died), meantime i went back to my tried and true Empire 698 with the AT M440 LA.
Technics is well known for its build and longevity, but personally i dont suscribe to the DJ sound vs the audiophile sound of the table themselves, thats the cartridges work, but i do want a table that can withstand time.
You made an excellent choice, put on your favorite album and enjoy!
 
I think the auto-lift/shut-off on the SL-1500C can be disabled, not that it matters, the GR is definitely a step up in build quality. And you already have a really good cart to put on it. Don't know how long it takes to break in an AT ML stylus, my 2M Bronze took about 50 hours. It was worth the wait.
 
justjed2 said:
I think the auto-lift/shut-off on the SL-1500C can be disabled, not that it matters, the GR is definitely a step up in build quality. And you already have a really good cart to put on it. Don't know how long it takes to break in an AT ML stylus, my 2M Bronze took about 50 hours. It was worth the wait.
Click to expand...
The auto lift can be disabled on the 1500c, does the GR have an auto lift feature?
 
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