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Ultrasonic cleaner power level

Scifi

Scifi

Super Member
I'm planning to put together an ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning vinyl records. I'm wondering what power the ultrasonic cleaner should be and if its too high could it damage the record. I searched the forums and didn't find anything about power levels. I found these links listed below. The second link says something about high power degrading vinyl, but they overcame this after years of R&D. The 3rd link is a DIY setup using a 180 W Jeken PS-D30(A). Does anyone have any experience with this type of thing and have you seen any apparent degradation from use of an ultrasonic cleaner?

LP Vinyl Record Ultrasonic Cleaner with Dryer
http://klaudio.com/kd-cln-lp200-lp-vinyl-record-ultrasonic-cleaner-dryer

Frequently Asked Questions
http://klaudio.com/frequently-asked-questions

DIY Ultrasonic record cleaner
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diy_ultrasonic_cleaner_e.html

Ultrasonic Cleaner Project Plan
http://seniord.ece.iastate.edu/may0509/ProjectPlanRequirements.pdf

Ultrasonic Cleaner Sweetens Sounds of Old Vinyl
http://www.tovatech.com/bcstaging/2...ltrasonic-cleaner-sweetens-sound-of-old-vinyl

Tips for Specifying Ultrasonic Cleaner Power
http://www.tovatech.com/bcstaging/2.../tips-for-specifying-ultrasonic-cleaner-power
 
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thanks, too for the links. I've been pondering and studying all the cost angles and methods. I realize the sonic method is basically agitation

Seems to me that 'wetting' and keeping the cleaning solution active long enough to work and rinsing at the final rinse are primary. I was considering a small pressure wash like perhaps a water pick or small pulse jet and let the solution drain off while the jet gets into the grooves. Motorized? not sure if I care to add electricity to a gizmo using water and the expense of a rcm off the shelf either. again seems to me that the final rinse formula and vac are most key assuming the cleaning part was satisfactory.

Also have been considering buying a microscope cam to get a close up pic of grooves cleaned and examine stylus which can also be used for other examination.

Other factors I'm looking at are my water filter off the tap is good enough for drinking water so can't see why it's not good enough for precleaning and use the good stuff for the final rinse out.

ahhh back to the drawing board.
 
I think from my lab experience using small ultra sonic cleaners were used very small focused. small tray and adding distilled water.. You place the small part on a tray and was suspended.. not overly complex. the unit was perhaps size of a kids sized shoe box all stainless. very high freq focus to stylus... on off? I don't know the hz. but my lab practice was used on small metal parts. plastics got damaged as sonics at close range cracked enamel like residue on cutting tools.

In the carolina's we have a big market of passing kidney stones because of the high calcium content in water. The hospitals put you in an ultrasonic bath and you get blasted.. absolutely safe.

I'm not going to pursue ultra sonic for my 'method' but interested in building a couple of rinse reservoir tanks. buy some dental sprayers, scrubbing brushes like artist grade I've been experimenting with. I can get plastics and cut. just need a power pressure tip. Actually have motors but think a waste of money but if you have stepper motors? hmm back to the marketing? naa but I'll buy some parts if you have a good idea. make me one part of asm and I can get tank parts cut and provide glue etc.

Been playing with vacuum and small air pressure versus vacuum shop vac types and the air blowing all over just raises more dust.

pm.. if interested.
 
Scifi said:
There's some 6L Ultrasonic Cleaners on Ebay that have tanks that look like they'd be about the right size for LP records. The Ultrasonic power is 180W for the ones I've seen on Ebay, similar to the one here
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diy_ultrasonic_cleaner_e.html
Click to expand...

That 180w is not really a consern, yeah it need to work in your location so if you in the US with 110 or 220.

This is the power the motors generate

Ultrasonic Frequency 40kH

And some do 60kH


Please look in the thread I linked you to as I really don't want to repeat comments again here. But for right now I would get a 10L tank over a 6L tank as they have a life expectancy. If we look at both units lasting the same amount of time (cycles) but one can clean twice as many records per cycle it reduces the cost per record to clean let alone your time to do it.
 
I think that assembly is doubtful. reminds me of dr. somebodies idea of how to kill yourself as wood is used and nullifies hz. as an isolation effect.

However a violin played at the right frequency can break a crystal glass. maybe play loud tenor voices into water at enclosed range? :D
 
Haven't read all the links but FWIW I've put records through a several hundred watt industrial system and didn't see (hear) any degradation. OTOH, I didn't get the expected benefits either. It may be that really getting into the grooves requires a much higher frequency cleaner. For precision cleaning of very small parts cleaners of up to 80 kHz work better- http://www.zenith-ultrasonics.com/80kHz_sonics.htm Especially note the particle sizes they quote near the end.

To test how well a typical ultrasonic cleaners works, dip a strip of aluminum foil in and run the cleaner for about 30 seconds. The foil should be wrinkled up and full of perforations when you hold it up to the light. Good thing records aren't made of aluminum foil!
 
My understanding is that power isn't the issue so much as frequency. Higher frequencies produce smaller bubbles in greater quantities. Smaller bubbles are less aggressive when they implode, and the greater number of them just means better, more thorough coverage.

I spent a brief period with one of the inexpensive 6L 40kHz tanks and was unimpressed. There's little noticeable improvement over an hydraulic pressure wash and you still need to scrub to get the really hard stuff out.

I used the cleaner once to remove hardened smoke residue from the chaff screen of a coffee roaster. With a little agitation it cleaned the screen better than any other method I tried, but the bubbles left plume trails visibly etched in the bakelite components. For this reason I believe it is possible to damage vinyl, but in order to minimize it the record must be continuously rotating.
 
I agree on getting in the grooves and the method or mechanics used and what are the contaminants? We have a member here who uses pretty high pressure washer and I can envision same with label protectors etc.

buying fancy brushes? I have fine brushes with bristle diameters that I easily get into the grooves and sink rinse. No smoke or record treatment samples here and most are in excellent condition however I'd bet the mold release is still on most in one collection (bout 150 records)

I did buy some kodak 200 fotoflo , need to get some high 99% isoprop. to cut the cost of cleaning formula down. considering the dilutions it seems very important in the final rinse where then a vac or air source to rid of any beads etc.

Not my pics but the nature of the beast close up.
http://kottke.org/14/11/microscopic-photo-of-vinyl-record-grooves

Maybe instead of micro bubbles.. or pulsing.. more micro brushing and rinsing then final rinse stages.. two tanks and plan a manual amount you want to clean in an hour? half day?

Then there are rumors that 'you need new sleeves' as they have mold release on them? so paper manufacturing is pure?
 
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