Unboxing the $150,000US Audio Note UK Ongaku and

[RGA]

Let's see how the other half lives.

My session with the Audio Note Meishu Tonmeister Phono (300B Integrated). Probably the best that 300B can offer.

You gotta love the cheap ass box it comes in. Still, the best-sounding integrated amplifier I have auditioned. Not the top of the line anymore - the Legend runs $850,000 or so. I need a new job.

Still, I enjoyed my audition on Monday with the 300B Meishu Tonmeister (~10k) basic model. The Meishu runs $10k-25k depending on version and is the number one selling Audio Note amplifier that was designed by Guy Adams of Voyd Turntables for Audio Note.

The Tonmeister is the newer version and uses the Ongaku Power supply design. I have never been a fan of the 300B until the Tonmeister as I found the 300B a little too soft and vague and somewhat ill-suited for rock (though far more power and drive than the likes of the Cary 300B). If you can live with less power the Meishu is the better value IMO

The Tonmeister fixes all that. Interestingly, the dealer prefers the basic version to the more expensive silver version because while the silver has more hi-fi strengths - air and separation - it loses some of the midrange magic (he has not tried the Silver Sig version). I will be comparing the Meishu Tonmesiter integrated to the M6 Preamp (which I own) with a P3 Silver Tonemsiter (which is the power amp version of the Meishu Tonmeister). And also against the Jinro ( the Copper version and dramatically less expensive version of the Ongaku featured in the video below.

The dealer in Hong Kong
Speakers (don't need corners). AN E/SPE HE Hemp (HE=High Efficiency, SPE = the silver cable used internally, Hemp = woofer cone material)
CD player used is the CD 4.1x which houses the CDT Two/II Transport (A Philips Pro 2LF) and DAC 2.1x (non-oversampling DAC 1865N) with valve power supplies $13,000. The new CD 5.1 ($35k) was sold out. I am still kind of amazed that people are still buying $13k CD players um $35k CD players - still they are quite special.
I own the same TT3 turntable and PSU1 power supply(bottom right)
Mesihu Tonmeister on floor front right
Jinro on floor front left
Cables are all Lexus copper - Not too pricey for AN - Biwired (Fairly sure they would be under $800).

Okay the above was the opening act now for the
The unboxing video for the Ongaku

 

[Selmerdave]

That box is certainly hilarious, but maybe I missed the crate it was inside of...

I expect it's a matter of perspective but audio simply does not seem fun to me at those kind of numbers much less 1/10th of that. It's hard (for me) to see it being about the music when an amplifier costs that many more times what one could ever spend on recordings. I mean, how many live performances could one see for that kind of money? I would think it would be hard to spend it all. I can only imagine what it would feel like for something to go wrong with an amp like that, if there's a tiny bit of tube noise or a part failure, after that much of an investment?!? But the truth is most likely that a buyer of one of these is not someone that gets together that much money because the music is going to be that enjoyable with it, it's someone for whom that kind of money is a drop in the bucket and so when they buy an amplifier they're going to buy "something nice", and at that point the price only enhances their credibility as owners of something special. I wonder what the most it could possibly cost to get a one-off custom build no-limits amp from a reputable designer, hard to fathom silver transformers etc. getting much over $25k including the labor. My system probably seems the same from the perspective of a kid with air pods... Sorry, bit of a rant I guess so my apologies, I imagine (and would hope) that it sounds very good.

 

[kward]

Somehow I don’t feel worthy to even post on the same thread where that amp is discussed.

 

[RGA]

That box is certainly hilarious, but maybe I missed the crate it was inside of...

I expect it's a matter of perspective but audio simply does not seem fun to me at those kind of numbers much less 1/10th of that. It's hard (for me) to see it being about the music when an amplifier costs that many more times what one could ever spend on recordings. I mean, how many live performances could one see for that kind of money? I would think it would be hard to spend it all. I can only imagine what it would feel like for something to go wrong with an amp like that, if there's a tiny bit of tube noise or a part failure, after that much of an investment?!? But the truth is most likely that a buyer of one of these is not someone that gets together that much money because the music is going to be that enjoyable with it, it's someone for whom that kind of money is a drop in the bucket and so when they buy an amplifier they're going to buy "something nice", and at that point the price only enhances their credibility as owners of something special. I wonder what the most it could possibly cost to get a one-off custom build no-limits amp from a reputable designer, hard to fathom silver transformers etc. getting much over $25k including the labor. My system probably seems the same from the perspective of a kid with air pods... Sorry, bit of a rant I guess so my apologies, I imagine (and would hope) that it sounds very good.

Well of course these kinds of prices are not for most mere mortals - my dad used to say "never feel sorry for someone who owns a boat" with the meaning is they have so much money, money doesn't mean that much to them.

I have met the owner of the company several times over the years and the point he would make is that you can no longer listen to the likes of Frank Sinatra - the point of music reproduction is a form of time travel where you are bringing the long dead back to life and putting them in your living room. Of course a romantic idea from someone selling gear in the 6 and 7-digit range - albeit they do make a number of amplifiers under $4k which are all handmade in Europe still (no Chinese parts other than the tubes) so it is still possible for the regular Joe to get something very good. I mean there is a point where they can't go lower and stay in business. The inflation calculators really don't work when adjusting for worldwide manufacturing so while $100 today is the same as $50 in 1990 the reality is that it is probably triple or quadruple - so a $1000 amp in 1990 is likely to cost at least $2,000 if not $3,000-$4,000 today (especially if it's not made in China).

I think the greater problem is that our wages have not kept up remotely with inflation and on top of that everything has skyrocketed in price.

This is a factory tour of Audio Note - It looks like it takes a huge chunk of time just to make a pair of cables. I like Factory tours because I can actually see the parts and get a sense of the scale and effort at a parts level to make these things. Just like Rolex who makes their watches and the internal movements - versus say Omega who just buys their movement from the Swatch group. You could pay the same for either one but I suspect watch collectors value the pride of workmanship in a Rolex over Omega.

And I agree with you in principle that no one NEEDS this kind of product to enjoy music - it is strictly for the guys who own nesting doll Yachts. However, the Meishu Tonmesiter is at around $10k - that's doable. People buy $70,000 trucks. My advice - buy the $50,000 base version - get a Meishu and have $10k left over to buy records. Or better still - buy a 3 year old truck and 3 year old Meishu and buy used records and have it all and $40k in the bank!

9 Part factory tour from the manufacturing plant all the way to the dealer

 

[GChief]

Wonder if this will turn into the norm, many AK'ers worried about how others spend their $$'s. Seems to have started a little with post #2.

 

[SoNic67]

This is not about sound quality anymore. I am sure there is no real difference to be perceived in a blind test.

It's about flexing $ muscles.

 

[RGA]

Wonder if this will turn into the norm, many AK'ers worried about how others spend their $$'s. Seems to have started a little with post #2.

I own almost an all Audio Note system and I get why people bemoan these sorts of prices. In manufacturing, the cost of the typical parts to retail price is 10-1. When they pulled my $300 B&W speakers apart back in the 1990s there was around $22 worth of parts. And that was from a maker who is mass producing them so has a large economy of scale.

These higher-end products have no economy of scale (or very little) and hand made in the UK or Europe - the factory tour for example - doesn't even get to the speakers or turntables (handmade in their plant in Austria) or CD Transports and DACs (Made in Poland/Lithuania).

Unlike most manufacturers - you go to a dealer audition something - you like it and place an order. You pay your money and then 4-10 months later you get your amp/speaker/turntable. The AN E speaker for instance comes in 17 versions - 20 finishes (also all the RAL colours) - Which tweeter or woofer do you want - paper woofers MDF/Ply mixed 94dB and plain black for $5k or the LX HEMP woofer with better copper cables and Hemp woofers in a 15 ply Russian Birch cabinet - - upgrade again to HE drivers or silver cables or external crossovers or AlNiCo tweeters and woofers.

Tweeters - AlNiCo versus regular

And upgrade again to their new Field Coils

The higher up you go the few and fewer are made and they can't recoup costs across as many models. Being a customer of the brand I probably see a bit more value in it than some who just see the thing in a video and the price and roll their eyes. I just think it sells to people who can spend $150k like you or I would spend $20.

 

[RGA]

This is not about sound quality anymore. I am sure there is no real difference to be perceived in a blind test.

It's about flexing $ muscles.

Well as you probably know - tube amplifiers often sound different that SS amplifiers and other tube amplifiers. A 300B and a 211 and a 45 and an EL34 will all sound different from each other. Blind tests included. SS less so because many of those amps use similar parts and approaches. The Sugden A21a in Hi-Fi Choice won the blind tests (as in chosen to be the best under blind conditions) against other amplifiers but the Sugden is more of a unique design in that it is Single Ended topology running full class A. It operates more like a SET amplifier. Thus, it can be detected by ear more easily. It also measures worse than other amplifiers on the test bench (yet it was still preferred). Since it's been selling continuously since 1967 one has to presume it hasn't survived purely on smoke and mirrors.

I think Audio Note does offer listeners an advantage that is up your alley. One, the owner of the company has often enjoyed submitting his gear for Blind Tests and two, you as a customer can get it set up for such a test.

Example: The Ongaku, Tomei, and Jinro are all the same design. The only difference is the quality of the parts inside. The same for their preamps, power amps, and integrated amps. An M3 and M5 and M6 are all preamps - as you move up so does the quality of the parts. You can then set them up and switch back and forth A/B or A/B/C to hear if there is a difference and whether that difference is worth the money. I often hear differences but then think - yes but it's not worth double the price - or in fact the difference could sound worse.

But I think there are pretty big differences in tube amplifier sound - some people greatly prefer the 2a3 over the 300B for example. With Audio Note for roughly the same money they make a 45 (Paladin), a 2a3 (Vindicator), and 300b (Conqueror) power amp - all use the same Internal materials (which is why these comparisons are more interesting than comparing competing brands). And you would be quite shocked at how different the 3 amps sound - all quite great but I suspect you would definitely have a clear favourite. The 300B sounds more recessed but the best stage - the 2a3 is more upfront and better suited for more music genres - and the 45 is a tone monster but gentle (best for vocals). All three of these amps are between $5-$8k for the basic models. Still pricey BUT compared to an Ongaku they're pocket change.

 

[maxhifi]

I've only had exposure to the Audio Note UK gear, and it has blown me away performance wise. I hope to get invited to a room like the one in the first post some day.

 

[THD+N]

I traveled to Hong Kong for 20 years and lived there 1 year. I visited all the usual suspects in Mong Kok and Sham Shui Po. Fun times. Always picked up DIY parts but never bought anything high end.

 

[SoNic67]

All three of these amps are between $5-$8k for the basic models. Still pricey BUT compared to an Ongaku they're pocket change.

Kind of that was my message. At some $ level, the build quality is as good as it gets. Tubes, capacitors, resistors, transformers, are the best they can be had.
After that is just flexing.

PS: I personally like OK the pentode sound (with negative feedback), so I might be in minority.

 

[RGA]

Kind of that was my message. At some $ level, the build quality is as good as it gets. Tubes, capacitors, resistors, transformers, are the best they can be had.
After that is just flexing.

PS: I personally like OK the pentode sound (with negative feedback), so I might be in minority.

I own Wyred4Sound mAmp monoblocks - Class D (Shock/Horror) and they sound quite pleasing indeed.

But - it doesn't sound the same - and I use the word same because I genuinely feel that most tube amplifiers have a certain sound. I own some pretty pricey AN gear but I could be happy with much lower-priced gear from AN or other brands.

One interesting thing of note (well to me) is that Audio Note places their gear in a league table of sound quality in that level 3 sounds better than level 2 etc.

Their Jinro amp (211) is like $35,000 and is classed as level 3. The Meishu 300B is around $10,000 and is also classed as level 3. An M3 preamp $10k with Vindicator power amp (2a3) $6k ($16k combined for the separates) is also all level 3. So in their view, all of these amps offer up what they consider to be a certain level of sound quality but it comes down to your taste and wallet.

But let's avoid the high prices and look at their more entry-level big seller in the OTO - there are 8 OTO amplifiers - Which range from around $2,200 to $6,500
OTO Line PP
OTO Phono PP
OTO Line SE
OTO Line SE Signature
OTO Line SE Silver Signature
OTO Phono SE
OTO Phono SE Signature
OTO Phono SE Silver Signature

Back in the day I auditioned the OTO PP and the SE - you can determine if you prefer the sound of the push-pull amp or the Singled Ended Pentode version. I suspect most people prefer the SE version but it does have less power. Then you can back-to-back it against the upper versions.

But I doubt anyone will say the SE Silver Signature is twice or three times better even though the price is twice or three times more. However, I am fairly certain people will find the Silver Sig to be more robust - more open sounding and altogether bigger. Albeit that may mean less "tubey" sounding and less fat in the midrange.

The thing is - these products were largely demanded by customers - for years all they did was a PP and an SE - then fans of the OTO kept badgering them to make one with silver and use better parts and transformers - some folks LOOOOOOVE the sound of the EL84 tube. So they caved in and made them.

I've had my OTO for 19 years and really I could be fine living with that amp - the rest isn't so much flexing it's that I "can" go up the chain because I have not owned a car in 12 years and the government of Hong Kong pays my rent. That leaves disposable income for better gear - but it's not "necessary" for good sound quality.

 

[SoNic67]

because I have not owned a car in 12 years and the government of Hong Kong pays my rent. That leaves disposable income for better gear - but it's not "necessary" for good sound quality.

That's a good enough reason to upgrade
My first tube love was an ECC83/EL84 SE. Cheap transformer. Since then, I owned good solid state amps/receivers that are perfect to listen to, but they don't sound like my "first love". I am sure they measure better in every aspect, and it's just nostalgia that plays with my mind in the EL84 amp.
Lately I switched more (exclusively?) to listening in headphones, so my speakers are left neglected.

PS: Personally, I would probably travel with those disposable money, but that's not for everyone. Nice talking to you!

 

[zenith2134]

How cool is that!
The mighty 300B (and 211) I still have to try. have never owned a 300B based amp. Have owned single ended amps with type 45 and 2A3.

Enjoyable with single driver, full range speakers.

 

[RGA]

That's a good enough reason to upgrade
My first tube love was an ECC83/EL84 SE. Cheap transformer. Since then, I owned good solid state amps/receivers that are perfect to listen to, but they don't sound like my "first love". I am sure they measure better in every aspect, and it's just nostalgia that plays with my mind in the EL84 amp.
Lately I switched more (exclusively?) to listening in headphones, so my speakers are left neglected.

PS: Personally, I would probably travel with those disposable money, but that's not for everyone. Nice talking to you!

Yeah - I travel all the time but Hong Kong has brutal travel restrictions under Covid - so since 2020 the quarantine restrictions killed me. It's finally opened up so I have booked to go home to Canada this Christmas and booked the Philippines during Chinese New Year and Canada again at Easter. I am fortunate that Hong Kong pays teachers well enough so I can do both.

One other thing to note is that the price paid and the price you sell it for is the overall NET price of a given piece of Hi-Fi (or anything really) - Like buying a Japanese car - maybe you pay $2,000 more initially but if you sell it for $4,000 more 5 years later over the American car then you get both a better car and it winds up cheaper.

My OTO was $1900 back in 2003 - but I can sell it today for $2200-$2400. Granted I lose some inflation but had I bought a $1900 SS amp instead - it is likely I would only get $500-$800 for it today. So while the OTO seemed pricier it turns out it was far cheaper.

 

[maxhifi]

Yeah - I travel all the time but Hong Kong has brutal travel restrictions under Covid - so since 2020 the quarantine restrictions killed me. It's finally opened up so I have booked to go home to Canada this Christmas and booked the Philippines during Chinese New Year and Canada again at Easter. I am fortunate that Hong Kong pays teachers well enough so I can do both.

One other thing to note is that the price paid and the price you sell it for is the overall NET price of a given piece of Hi-Fi (or anything really) - Like buying a Japanese car - maybe you pay $2,000 more initially but if you sell it for $4,000 more 5 years later over the American car then you get both a better car and it winds up cheaper.

My OTO was $1900 back in 2003 - but I can sell it today for $2200-$2400. Granted I lose some inflation but had I bought a $1900 SS amp instead - it is likely I would only get $500-$800 for it today. So while the OTO seemed pricier it turns out it was far cheaper.

The black OTO SE from that era is one of the best sounding amplifiers I've had pass though my hands, and the fact that it uses such cheap tubes is the icing on the cake.

 

[RGA]

Well, the listening impressions video is out - they have now become an official dealer of Audio Note in Toronto. Trying the 20 watt amp on Wilson speakers was worth a shot I suppose but...