Unexpected project...Infinty IRS Beta
- Thread starter tomlinmgt
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tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
:yes:
Alright, you've forced me into acoustics geek mode. First, understand the construction of a QRD (Quadratic Residue Diffuser) is carefully calculated to achieve proper, even diffusion of specific frequencies. My units are built to within 1/16" tolerance, for example, and I used software to develop the designs. Bookshelves with random arrangements of books will not diffuse....not in terms of the technical definition, that is. They will, however, scatter sonic content but not always in a desirable fashion. Speaking hypothetically, this may create a concentration of content in the 1500-2500 Hz range reflected right at the listening spot yet have content in the 900-1400 Hz range scattered in directions that don't include the listening spot. You can see how this might be a problem.
The general rule is tame reflections and echoes with absorption first and then implement proper, calculated diffusion devices.
Now I sound like a geek and a snob. Happy now? :grumpy:
:yes:
I was being the fool when I wrote that, it was a long day yesterday and I was feeling kinda punchy. Somehow I knew you'd set me straight Michael. Nice work!
Apologies!
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
Oh hell, Jim. You weren't being fool. A fool does things he knows won't work...how could you have known bookshelves aren't actually diffuse? I mean, I'm constantly running across statements along the lines of "my room is acoustically treated with drapes/curtains for absorption and bookshelves for diffusion". It's junk science that's drawn from assumptions of convenience. And unless you delve into the science of room acoustics and acoustic treatments you'll probably never know any better. Half the reason I'm so hardcore about acoustic treatments is because I can do any damn thing I want in my listening space. Most people don't have that luxury so they focus their attention elsewhere......though I would strongly advise against a wholesale neglect of acoustic treatments just because you don't have a dedicated listening space.
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GTIanz
Active Member
Michael,
Status Update? How is your project progressing?
I could have pm'd you with this but your thread deserves a little bump. I just came across this youtube gem that I figured would be right up your alley.
Amazing audio room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELtyv9rfaF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Biln2yvPU-A&feature=c4-overview&list=UUnWwCEwoSGU4pYLJItyf5mQ
I'm curious about the reasoning behind the wood floors......why not carpeting?
And, irrelevant to the thread but relevant to Infinity dream speakers; there was a local seller looking to move a pair of Infinity Gammas. I attempted to make contact and hopefully a purchase but the seller turned out to be a bit "difficult".
Status Update? How is your project progressing?
I could have pm'd you with this but your thread deserves a little bump. I just came across this youtube gem that I figured would be right up your alley.
Amazing audio room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELtyv9rfaF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Biln2yvPU-A&feature=c4-overview&list=UUnWwCEwoSGU4pYLJItyf5mQ
I'm curious about the reasoning behind the wood floors......why not carpeting?
And, irrelevant to the thread but relevant to Infinity dream speakers; there was a local seller looking to move a pair of Infinity Gammas. I attempted to make contact and hopefully a purchase but the seller turned out to be a bit "difficult".
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tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
That guy's done his homework and has put together an amazing room with an impressive mix of devices. I see quadratic residue and binary diffusion, broadband and semi-reflective absorption, rigid membrane and (I think I saw) limp-mass absorbers and other stuff I'm not even familiar with (not that that's so hard to achieve). He's a few orders of magnitude beyond what I'm doing and is truly putting as much, if not more, thought and effort into his listening space as he is the rig itself. Hats off to that cat. I think it's safe to say I've been inspired. Thanks for that link.
I would imagine hardwood flooring was chosen for the same reason many recording studios prefer hardwood floors....liveliness and ambiance. Now, to pull this off you have to have a very absorptive ceiling otherwise you have two reflective parallel surfaces returning content sufficiently that echo based acoustic anomalies develop. You can see his drop ceiling is pure absorption with a few 2D QRD diffusion devices recessed into the absorption medium to keep the ceiling from being acoustically dead. Though the floor is reflective, the mostly absorptive ceiling is going to quell any echoes and the two diffusion devices will return content back into the room in the lateral and longitudinal dimensions (hence "2D") and the diffusion devices on the walls will then pick up that content and continue to diffuse it so no specific portion of spectral content (within the operating range of the diffusion devices) is emphasized or subdued. You can kind of hear the results in the second video....ambiance and clarity and (I'm sort of safely assuming) balance. Clarity is easy to achieve with a bunch of absorption and ambiance is easy to achieve with a room that allows content to bounce around but it takes a mix of absorption and diffusion to have the two simultaneously along with a balanced reproduction. Or so I'm told.
Sorry to hear about the Gamma experience. That's some serious audio gear acquisition blue balls right there.
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tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
My Lord...it's been a year since I last got prodded about this. :sigh:
Well, in that time I've been diverted with other audio opportunities....all of them necessary to help develop a vocabulary that will perhaps better equip me to appreciate the Betas (or be more critical of, for that matter). I was determined to hear my Altec 19's demonstrate what makes them iconic (which I accomplished), I came across a local opportunity for JBL L250's (which I'm currently listening to), I tore into getting my Acoustat Spectra 22's right (just got the refurbished and slightly upgraded interface units back), and I restored some Infinity Reference Studio Monitors for fellow AKer Rome.
And most important, I just about have my room the way I want wrt acoustic treatments. Just this past weekend I cleared a big hurdle when I finished the stepped fractal diffusers for my front wall (see below) and this allowed me to move some QRD diffusers I had in that location to the rear of the room where I have nothing but absorption. This was a big deal.
But several months ago I decided to not rush the Betas. It's the type of thing I want to build up to...stop and smell a few of the many other audio "roses" that present themselves to me as I take my journey. But I'm just about ready. The garage is a much cooler place to work now that summer is behind us and kids sports will be over in about a month. Maybe just after Christmas I'll have the Betas going.
Thanks for your interest. :thmbsp:
Well, in that time I've been diverted with other audio opportunities....all of them necessary to help develop a vocabulary that will perhaps better equip me to appreciate the Betas (or be more critical of, for that matter). I was determined to hear my Altec 19's demonstrate what makes them iconic (which I accomplished), I came across a local opportunity for JBL L250's (which I'm currently listening to), I tore into getting my Acoustat Spectra 22's right (just got the refurbished and slightly upgraded interface units back), and I restored some Infinity Reference Studio Monitors for fellow AKer Rome.
And most important, I just about have my room the way I want wrt acoustic treatments. Just this past weekend I cleared a big hurdle when I finished the stepped fractal diffusers for my front wall (see below) and this allowed me to move some QRD diffusers I had in that location to the rear of the room where I have nothing but absorption. This was a big deal.
But several months ago I decided to not rush the Betas. It's the type of thing I want to build up to...stop and smell a few of the many other audio "roses" that present themselves to me as I take my journey. But I'm just about ready. The garage is a much cooler place to work now that summer is behind us and kids sports will be over in about a month. Maybe just after Christmas I'll have the Betas going.
Thanks for your interest. :thmbsp:
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GTIanz
Active Member
Haha! It's been a year since i logged onto the forums. All because of you and how you made my man cave an acoustically pleasant atmosphere.
I have enjoyed my dahlquist DQ-10's immensely - largely due to some room sound treatment (recommended by you). But, i am a curious fellow and must try to find out if there is something better.
Hence some polk srs speakers found their way into my home.
First thing i thought about checking back here was your knowledge and those monster infiniti speakers.
I am really glad to see you are doing well and doing amazing things!
If you have some other build threads you should post the links here. Let us all learn from you!
I still thank you for your great room acoustic advice.
Ian
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
^^^
Wow! Well, glad to have you back, huge congrats on the SRS's (DQ-10's aren't easy to displace but those could sure do it!) and thanks for the kind words. :thmbsp: I'm very happy to hear the acoustic treatments I suggested worked out for you. Why don't you start a thread about those Polks? We'd like to hear about your experience with them and I'd certainly like to see a picture of them in your (acoustically treated) room. :yes:
Wow! Well, glad to have you back, huge congrats on the SRS's (DQ-10's aren't easy to displace but those could sure do it!) and thanks for the kind words. :thmbsp: I'm very happy to hear the acoustic treatments I suggested worked out for you. Why don't you start a thread about those Polks? We'd like to hear about your experience with them and I'd certainly like to see a picture of them in your (acoustically treated) room. :yes:
An amazing find and great thread for some epic speakers. I shared with several AK and other audio pals this week. Stumbled across it as I'd finally gotten my pair of QLS 1's up and running with a recap and thanks to all on this thread for your contributions in other threads on how to access the crossovers, how to remove the bases, and what to use for new caps. Sounding absolutely stunning, but I need more power!
Michael, this thread has left me hanging……what is the final story? Hoping they are fully up and running in your newly renovated space and making you smile every time you power them up. Please update the thread if you would!
Friends with QLS, RS I, and others Infinity speakers hanging on by a "thread"
Michael, this thread has left me hanging……what is the final story? Hoping they are fully up and running in your newly renovated space and making you smile every time you power them up. Please update the thread if you would!
Friends with QLS, RS I, and others Infinity speakers hanging on by a "thread"
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tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
Congrats on the QLS-1's. They'll always have a very special place in my heart. One of my game changers, for sure.
No real progress on the Betas. My business has exploded this past few months (new account) and free time is at an absolute minimum until I can get caught up down at the shop. My critical listening sessions have gone from six/week to about two. :sigh:
tomlinmgt
Lunatic Member
Thanks and same to you. :thmbsp:
Thanks Michael - well, being busy and in demand keeps us in the toys. I will continue to follow this thread as you make your final leg to the finish line. Happy New Year and hopefully it's the year for the Betas!