Upgrade to HDMI receiver?

[mstrane21]

I'm currently running a 5.1 setup through an old Yamaha V2400 receiver. Sony Blu Ray player HDMI to TV, Blue Ray player optical to receiver.

The Yamaha was a pretty decent receiver back in the day, but it's over 10 years old now, doesn't have HDMI, and doesn't have some of the newer processing functions. It does have a really cool auto parametric equalizer. It's got some juice (120 wpc), and weighs 35 pounds, so it's pretty well built by most standards. It has DD EX, PLII, DTS, and is THX certified.

I actually have a Sony STR-DH820 in a closet and a Pioneer VSX-917V in my son's play room, both of which have HDMI inputs, but neither one was as high quality as the Yamaha when new, so I'm not sure they'd be any better.

I'm actually happy with the sound I'm getting from the Yamaha since I really have no other baseline of comparison except for it sounds better than our local theater (IMO), so am I missing THAT much by not upgrading? And the caveat is that I wouldn't buy something the same caliber as the Yamaha was at the time it was new (I believe it was about $1,000 or so). I'd only be "okay" with paying $3-400 for something newer, which I know is beans around here, but frankly I'm cheap unless it's something really important to me.

Any thoughts? My gut tells me to run this thing until it dies and then worry about upgrading, but if I'm missing out on a significant improvement in sound quality, I would reconsider.

 

[Putterman]

AFAICT the biggest thing that you're missing is Dolby True HD and DTS-HD which plays soundtracks with up to 7.1 discrete channels of lossless audio vs. the lossy Dolby Digital and DTS codecs. You're also missing the latest room calibration systems which provide better equalization particularly for the sub channel.
One possible solution is to get an HDMI AV receiver with preamp outputs so that you can still use the extra wattage of the Yamaha. Note that if buying new, you'll still spend close to $1K to get this feature.

 

[Djcoolray]

I've got a much older Pioneer VSX-D1S which can also be used in 2-channel stereo. I've got everything hooked up to the receiver and television with sensational sound so I am in you present situation. I've got a satellite box, DVD player, CD player, Cassette Deck, EQ and turntable hooked up and I can listen in Dolby surround sound with enhancement features that they can't put in equipment these days, then I can shut off the SS and listen to 2-channel in direct mode with an EQ. Then I have the opportunity to buy equipment and bring it back for a full refund so I've heard the hollow sound coming from the new AVR's and wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

 

[transmaster]

Well next week I am ordering a Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A770 which has all of the goodies. One of the interesting thing is has is 2 way Bluetooth. The other AVR from other manufacturers have Bluetooth but for most it is only for receiving. With the Yamaha you can use Bluetooth headphones.

 

[donprice]

$300-$400 puts you in the range of finding a used RX-A10x0 or RX-A20x0 which would be more or less the modern equivalent of your trusty RX-V2400. The RX-Ax070 is the current version...so the RX-A2010 is about 7 model years old and is a beast at 45 pounds. Keep checking your local CL since they are too heavy to ship and won't come up at a reasonable price very often.

 

[whoaru99]

The other option for the lossless/HD audio formats is to use the multichannel (mch) analog inputs of the RX-V2400 (if your BD player has, or you could find one, with the necessary mch analog outputs and built-in lossless decoding).

If you want to try the lossless formats a change in BD player with the necessary mch capability could be quite a bit less than changing the AVR, even used.

There are also devices that will pull mch analog audio out of the hdmi bitstream too, that may be even less cost than a different Blu ray player.

 

[transmaster]

Check out Crutchfield I have been a customer of the outfit since 1974 I always get my AVR's and such from them. They have the Yamaha AVR line up. I am getting the RX-A770 because it is roughly equivalent to the Onkyo 709 it is replacing. they have the Yamaha RX-V583 which costs $449.99 with free shipping, and they have an open box special for $404.99. 80 watts per channel it has all of the modern goodies.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXV583/Yamaha-RX-V583.html

 

[transmaster]

Just running the sound in via the HDMI inputs is a vast improvement. I used to run an ASUS Xonar Essence sound card. When I switched to the AMD True Audio coming out of my Radeon R9 380 GPU except for the exceptional headphone amp in the Xonar Essence SC the True Audio just blows the Xonar out of the water.

 

[whoaru99]

just running the sound in via the HDMI inputs is a vast improvement. I used to run an ASUS Zonar Essence sound card. When I switched to the AMD True Audio coming out of my Radeon R9 380 GPU except for the exceptional headphone amp in the Zonar Essence SC the True Audio just blows the Zonar out of the water.

Too general. Audio-wise mch analog can convey the same content. I would agree, though, HDMI does just about everything more conveniently. That's why I changed to HDMI. Convenience more than anything else.

 

[transmaster]

Too general. Audio-wise mch analog can convey the same content. I would agree, though, HDMI does just about everything more conveniently. That's why I changed to HDMI. Convenience more than anything else.

When you are running 5.1 surround music True Audio and HDMI are fantastic the cable is so much better than coaxial digital and especially Toslink optical. I hate the wimpy optical inputs. The crappy dust cover cable latch just sucks. That is one of the things I love about the ASUS Xonar Essence SC. The digital output is a dual port it is a coaxial digital and also a mini Toslink plug this is how it should be done. You just insert the mini Toslink plug into the center of the RCA jack and the optical jack is inside, wonderful.

 

[whoaru99]

When you are running 5.1 surround music True Audio and HDMI are fantastic the cable is so much better than coaxial digital and especially Toslink optical. I hate the wimpy optical inputs. The crappy dust cover cable latch just sucks. That is one of the things I love about the ASUS Xonar Essence SC. The digital output is a dual port it is a coaxial digital and also a mini Toslink plug this is how it should be done. You just insert the mini Toslink plug into the center of the RCA jack and the optical jack is inside, wonderful.

I'm not talking about coaxial or optical connection. Neither of those have the bandwidth to carry the lossless audio. It's either HDMI or multichannel analog connection to get the lossless audio formats.

 

[mstrane21]

The other option for the lossless/HD audio formats is to use the multichannel (mch) analog inputs of the RX-V2400 (if your BD player has, or you could find one, with the necessary mch analog outputs and built-in lossless decoding).

If you want to try the lossless formats a change in BD player with the necessary mch capability could be quite a bit less than changing the AVR, even used.

There are also devices that will pull mch analog audio out of the hdmi bitstream too, that may be even less cost than a different Blu ray player.

I've got a couple of Blu Ray players with multi-channel outs (Marantz BD8002 and Sony BDP-500). Dumb question, but how would that work, though? Would the disk have to be coded for the lossless formats (Dolby True HD, DTS HD, and whatever else) to utilize the multi-outs? I.e., would pretty much all my older disks still output through the optical or coaxial digital out on the Blu Ray player since they were encoded in older surround sound formats? This is probably a ridiculous question, but please walk me through that option.

 

[Duane]

I've got a couple of Blu Ray players with multi-channel outs (Marantz BD8002 and Sony BDP-500). Dumb question, but how would that work, though? Would the disk have to be coded for the lossless formats (Dolby True HD, DTS HD, and whatever else) to utilize the multi-outs? I.e., would pretty much all my older disks still output through the optical or coaxial digital out on the Blu Ray player since they were encoded in older surround sound formats? This is probably a ridiculous question, but please walk me through that option.

As long as you have a piece of equipment that has at least a 5 channel analog input, it will work. The Blu-ray players do the decoding from whatever disc you are using and then sends that out over the analog outputs which you connect to the previosly mentioned inputs. Dolby Digital/ DTS and the newer ones will work.

 

[mstrane21]

As long as you have a piece of equipment that has at least a 5 channel analog input, it will work. The Blu-ray players do the decoding from whatever disc you are using and then sends that out over the analog outputs which you connect to the previosly mentioned inputs. Dolby Digital/ DTS and the newer ones will work.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to give this a go (running the multi channel analog outs to the receiver), as it sounds like a pretty solid solution for my particular situation and won't cost a dime. I believe at some point a higher end HDMI receiver will fall in my lap for peanuts, so this should keep me satisfied until then.

 

[whoaru99]

As long as you have a piece of equipment that has at least a 5 channel analog input, it will work. The Blu-ray players do the decoding from whatever disc you are using and then sends that out over the analog outputs which you connect to the previosly mentioned inputs. Dolby Digital/ DTS and the newer ones will work.

Yes. The only caveat is that the player needs to have all the necessary decoders for whatever formats one wants to be able to use.

Normally, all that stuff is proudly displayed on the front panel labeling. If not, the ops manual should say what decoders are built in.

 

[whoaru99]

I've got a couple of Blu Ray players with multi-channel outs (Marantz BD8002 and Sony BDP-500). Dumb question, but how would that work, though? Would the disk have to be coded for the lossless formats (Dolby True HD, DTS HD, and whatever else) to utilize the multi-outs? I.e., would pretty much all my older disks still output through the optical or coaxial digital out on the Blu Ray player since they were encoded in older surround sound formats? This is probably a ridiculous question, but please walk me through that option.

In addition to what Duane said and I added, also bear in mind that many of the settings that were previously made in the receiver will now have to be set in the BD player. The mch analog inputs are usually direct analog inputs typically not subject to all the bass management settings as signals coming in digitally. The Yamaha manual should say how those inputs are handled and the player manual and menus should describe the settings on that side.

Then, when you play a disk, you can check (usually in the audio or language menu) of the disk for alternate sound tracks if it contains more than one (for example the normal Dolby Digital track and Dolby TrueHD).

 

[mstrane21]

*****Edit: whoaru99 answered a bunch of my questions as I was typing this. Thanks! *****Still not completely clear on a couple of things. Let's say I run a late 90s copy of, say, Top Gun. What's the BDP going to do with that ancient soundtrack? True HD/DTS HD isn't going to be an option in a case like that, right, if it's not embedded into the dvd? Or am I thinking of this the wrong way? Will it play an old movie like that through multi channel or will I need to play the movie through a digital out like I'm doing now?

Will using the multi channel inputs bypass equalization?

 

[whoaru99]

Old movies will play fine through the analog outputs.

And, yes, the mch analog inputs may bypass equalization/room correction. You'd want to check the Yamaha literature to know for sure.

Far as I know there isn't anything that precludes you from leaving the digital output connected and connecting the mch analog. As long as you use different input source selections (mch analog is usually independent anyway) you can select either one as your whim suits.

 

[donprice]

A modern "network" AVR will allow you to play MP3/FLAC/WMA from a PC/media server, iPad/iPhone, USB thumb drive, and other gadgets. Other benefits may include multi-zone capability and remote control via PC,tablet, or smart-phone app. While none of this stuff is "must have" technology, it really is sweet to be able to pick from 100+ CDs worth of lossless-format music on a $10 thumb-drive in your receiver from another room while the wife/kids are watching a movie with a 5.1 (or 7.2 or whatever) soundtrack on the same system in the main room. Yeah, you've got to work to set it up but it is worth it if you ask me.

Back to one of the original questions regarding sound quality....very easy to do worse...got to get one of the higher end units (original MSRP >$1500?) to match or do better.

 

[sfox52]

I'm thinking of getting a newer AVR also, my old Sherwood 8090R is still working, but it is outdated. I don't need the most up to date features, but I would like to take advantage of the multi zone and network functions a newer unit would offer. One caution is there seem to be lots of these on the auction site with issues, often with the HDMI functions. I might go for one of the refurbished models, at least they offer some warranty.