Upgraded vintage Planar 2 value/worth/replace?

[rgiskad]

GM!

Having recently gotten back into vinyl after about 10 years, I've been slowly putting my system back together. Would appreciate some advice on the TT.

I have a vintage Rega Planar 2, see pic below, that I cannot really tell which version it is. Ones I find that look like this generally have green lettering. I bought it off Ebay some 20 yrs ago. It didn't have a motor, counterweight, and the tonearm wiring was missing. I think I maybe paid $50-100 for it. It has the glass platter and RB250 tonearm. It was in solid condition otherwise, and I went about upgrading.
Upgrades I performed:
- P3 Motor
- Incognito Cardas rewire from BritAudio
- Michell Technoweight
- Origin Live VTA adapter
- Ortofon X5-MC

Since I put this together, due to a combination of having kids and moving, it actually didn't see a ton of use. It was stored in an air conditioned room, and lent to a friend at different times.

It's now fitted with an AT-VM95SH cartridge, and I have a Darlington Labs MM6B on the way to replace the original Project Phono Box SE I purchased back then. Really looking forward to seeing how it sounds with the MM6B, but it sounds pretty good with the 95SH now using the Project.

So I am curious...I see tons of TTs out there, new Projects, Denons, ATs, etc., is what I have comparable/better/worse than the new iterations (midrange, not talking about multi $k TTs out of my range)? As I continue this journey, I'm wondering if others have stuck to something like this vintage but very much upgraded Rega, or bought a new TT? And if I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this Planar 2 and any future upgrades should be more towards speakers etc. Having given away my old Acoustic Research speakers, I picked up a pair of KEF Q150s.

 

[mrwood200]

Having recently gotten back into vinyl after about 10 years, I've been slowly putting my system back together. Would appreciate some advice on the TT.
I have a vintage Rega Planar 2.... it actually didn't see a ton of use. IAT-VM95SH cartridge Darlington Labs MM6B ...is what I have comparable/better/worse than the new iterations ... And if I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this Planar 2 and any future upgrades should be more towards speakers etc.

That is a good looking P2 - and you have put some work into it!
I would say you are fine. Welcome back to vinyl!
I got a 30-year no-mods P3 I am looking to upgrade, but I am still using it, and I will probably keep it in the rotation. I think these tables are 'entry-level hifi', and can move up a bit w/mods & cartridge. I would agree on 'diminishing returns' on additional mods for P2; consider need for spindle oil & new belt. Run RPM speed & WOW app.
Assuming you TT keeps accurate speed, cartridge good condition & TT is set up well, I would look at the rest of your system and/or vinyl accessories (LPs, cleaner).

 

[rgiskad]

That is a good looking P2 - and you have put some work into it!
I would say you are fine. Welcome back to vinyl!
I got a 30-year no-mods P3 I am looking to upgrade, but I am still using it, and I will probably keep it in the rotation. I think these tables are 'entry-level hifi', and can move up a bit w/mods & cartridge. I would agree on 'diminishing returns' on additional mods for P2; consider need for spindle oil & new belt. Run RPM speed & WOW app.
Assuming you TT keeps accurate speed, cartridge good condition & TT is set up well, I would look at the rest of your system and/or vinyl accessories (LPs, cleaner).

Thanks, never checked on the speed.

I'm getting 33-1/3 -6% pretty consistently. Tried moving the phone around, putting it on a tape spool over the spindle, etc., etc.
WOW consistently between .5 and .44.

So....speed is good?, but WOW means....what?

 

[leesonic]

I have probably that same turntable, bought new back in the 1990s. It came with me when I moved to the US from the UK 25 years ago. A new motor from Rega got around the voltage/frequency issue.

If there is any problem with wow, look at the belt and pulley.

 

[mrwood200]

I'm getting 33-1/3 -6% pretty consistently. Tried moving the phone around, putting it on a tape spool over the spindle, etc., etc.
WOW consistently between .5 and .44.

So....speed is good?, but WOW means....what?

?? Final result is 33 1/3 RPM -6.00%? Let's see a screenshot .......
Your number bother me enough where I had to get up off the couch......... fyi used sl1200 quicky test & screenshot


Depending on your phone, RPM is a good speed tool. -6% is not acceptable.
In general, I don't think RPM WOW is accurate enough for maintenance decisions. It is very phone dependent & gyro-inside-phone-orientation dependent. On my tables, I might play with it a bit trying to orientate phone on the tape roll to try & minimize results, but I don't think it is accurate enough to compare with others & OEM spec. I think the speed number can compare well.

 

[rgiskad]

I have a Pixel 6.
I took off the acrylic mat and put the felt back on so it wouldn't slide. Placed it beside the spindle, and sitting on top of a big painters blue tape spool over the spindle a few times. Took off the phone case, put it back on, etc.,
I have never cleaned the spindle, belt, etc., and its the belt that came with the P3 motor I installed many years ago. Probably needs cleaning...
To my ears, I cannot really hear a problem, but alas while I'm at all this I do want to get it as good as I can.

 

[Tonoje]

I'm wondering if others have stuck to something like this vintage but very much upgraded Rega, or bought a new TT? And if I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this Planar 2 and any future upgrades should be more towards speakers etc

I'm not very well up on the various Rega models down the years, but considering when you say you bought it, I think this might be the immediate predecessor to the 2000 lineup, which changed to the "P2, P3" designation rather than Planar - then they went back to Planar one or two iterations later. The 2000 Regas are the ones with the chamfered bottom edge on the plinth. Aesthetically, a real step down from the earlier and simpler look I thought, but by the time I'd got together the cash for a new Rega, which was all I really had my eye on at the time (I wasn't in Japan yet), those had just arrived and the older design was gone. I ended up with a P3-2000.

I will just give my personal opinion on upgrading, but don't feel obliged to agree. The law of diminishing returns sets in quite quickly. Yes there are all kinds of upgrades from Rega and third-party makers, and you could try and apply more and more of them down the years, but once you've replaced the plastic subplatter with machined metal, you're probably adding things that are either of slightly doubtful benefit (mat, pulley, belt), or costly, or costly while also of slightly doubtful benefit. If you dutifully go "all the way", you're going to swap out the pulley, go for double belts, change the subplatter, then the platter, and maybe opt for the underslung counterweight. All the precision-machined items are going to cost north of £100 each, and there's still the motor to tamper with or a power supply to add, if that's even possible with your era's Planar 2. The overall cost of these upgrades is going to be high: is it really worth ploughing all that money into a lightly built, lightly featured turntable?

Some of this may provide sonic benefits, some may just look well made. God knows how useful a 3rd party counterweight is. Some of the changes, such as the external power supply are costly and the main selling point (I reckon) is simply a feature upgrade: switchable speed. For all the money spent, a more robust turntable with switchable speed built-in could have been bought. For a Rega owner, there's a point where it may be better to cut your losses and just move to something else instead of trying to spend your way out of its limitations. (I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this applies to Linn too, but those turntables are a closed book to me).

You're asking about the Rega you have in comparison to new decks: Project at the lower levels is likely to be more of the same. The Denons and AT you're considering are I assume direct drive models, and I think the AT at least must be in the SL1200 mould: the 1200 being a nice proven design and very well built. Take that or the AT over a Rega? Not a bad idea if you can afford the Technics, in either new or vintage form, and the AT is probably worth a look too. As your original Rega was secondhand, you could of course go for a vintage turntable, and again, choose well and you can easily beat a Rega on build quality. I'll admit it though, I'm just no longer keen on lightweight decks.

 

[mrwood200]

I have never cleaned the spindle, belt, etc., and its the belt that came with the P3 motor I installed many years ago. Probably needs cleaning...
To my ears, I cannot really hear a problem, but alas while I'm at all this I do want to get it as good as I can.

...ah. -0.6%. pesky decimal point!

You are fine. You are in the ballpark.
As you refresh your system, it is time for some maintenance. I bet your TT can perform better than this. I would get your service manual & look to complete some routine maintenance. Hopefully just cleaning & spindle oil. I have cleaned the drive surfaces, oil, & replaced belt with 'white OEM belt' at some point. I will leave the details to you, but found these:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=115770
https://www.rega.co.uk/pdf/HFN-Rega-Planar-2-lowres.pdf (probably not your P2 but numbers to compare)
A little maintenance, assuming cartridge/stylus OK, I still think you will be OK with this TT & focus elsewhere for upgrades.

 

[rgiskad]

...ah. -0.6%. pesky decimal point!

You are fine. You are in the ballpark.
As you refresh your system, it is time for some maintenance. I bet your TT can perform better than this. I would get your service manual & look to complete some routine maintenance. Hopefully just cleaning & spindle oil. I have cleaned the drive surfaces, oil, & replaced belt with 'white OEM belt' at some point. I will leave the details to you, but found these:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=115770
https://www.rega.co.uk/pdf/HFN-Rega-Planar-2-lowres.pdf (probably not your P2 but numbers to compare)
A little maintenance, assuming cartridge/stylus OK, I still think you will be OK with this TT & focus elsewhere for upgrades.

Thanks for confirmation....was thinking don't really need to chase a couple .% pts. yea, forgot the decimal...doh.

Will look to do some of that as I get the preamp, etc.

 

[rgiskad]

I'm not very well up on the various Rega models down the years, but considering when you say you bought it, I think this might be the immediate predecessor to the 2000 lineup, which changed to the "P2, P3" designation rather than Planar - then they went back to Planar one or two iterations later. The 2000 Regas are the ones with the chamfered bottom edge on the plinth. Aesthetically, a real step down from the earlier and simpler look I thought, but by the time I'd got together the cash for a new Rega, which was all I really had my eye on at the time (I wasn't in Japan yet), those had just arrived and the older design was gone. I ended up with a P3-2000.

I will just give my personal opinion on upgrading, but don't feel obliged to agree. The law of diminishing returns sets in quite quickly. Yes there are all kinds of upgrades from Rega and third-party makers, and you could try and apply more and more of them down the years, but once you've replaced the plastic subplatter with machined metal, you're probably adding things that are either of slightly doubtful benefit (mat, pulley, belt), or costly, or costly while also of slightly doubtful benefit. If you dutifully go "all the way", you're going to swap out the pulley, go for double belts, change the subplatter, then the platter, and maybe opt for the underslung counterweight. All the precision-machined items are going to cost north of £100 each, and there's still the motor to tamper with or a power supply to add, if that's even possible with your era's Planar 2. The overall cost of these upgrades is going to be high: is it really worth ploughing all that money into a lightly built, lightly featured turntable?

Some of this may provide sonic benefits, some may just look well made. God knows how useful a 3rd party counterweight is. Some of the changes, such as the external power supply are costly and the main selling point (I reckon) is simply a feature upgrade: switchable speed. For all the money spent, a more robust turntable with switchable speed built-in could have been bought. For a Rega owner, there's a point where it may be better to cut your losses and just move to something else instead of trying to spend your way out of its limitations. (I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this applies to Linn too, but those turntables are a closed book to me).

You're asking about the Rega you have in comparison to new decks: Project at the lower levels is likely to be more of the same. The Denons and AT you're considering are I assume direct drive models, and I think the AT at least must be in the SL1200 mould: the 1200 being a nice proven design and very well built. Take that or the AT over a Rega? Not a bad idea if you can afford the Technics, in either new or vintage form, and the AT is probably worth a look too. As your original Rega was secondhand, you could of course go for a vintage turntable, and again, choose well and you can easily beat a Rega on build quality. I'll admit it though, I'm just no longer keen on lightweight decks.

Thanks for your input. It is appreciated.
I plan on keeping it in near term, who knows, once I retire and need more hobbies to fill my time I can splurge one year.

For now I will just do routine maintenance and maybe look at just minor updates, like belts and the like.
It sounds good now.

 

[Morgan D]

Make sure you get a real Rega belt.
Just pay the price.

 

[Tonoje]

A couple of other things I didn't mention, but they don't endear Regas to me.

1. Obviously the stock method of adjusting the speed is a bother.

2. Some cartridges need to be used with a spacer under the arm, which can only be installed by removing the arm first. There can also then be issues with a lack of clearance when the dust cover is closed. I think this applies to Dynavector cartridges.

3. The fixed headshell is way less convenient than interchangeable. Maybe fine on a high-end turntable, but that's not a Planar 2, 3, 6 or 8.

4. Three feet. Jesus.

If you get a Japanese turntable you won't have to deal with most of this. They don't like to sell the user short in their designs. Some models don't have adjustable VTA/arm height, but it's easy enough to find if you want it (and generally, I do).

 

[mrwood200]

A couple of other things I didn't mention, but they don't endear Regas to me.

HA! made me laugh!
They are all true & as a long-time Rega owner I agree with all of it, except for the 'sell short' statement. It is a different design, maybe a different market and/or price point.
I just swapped my Rega out for routine maintenance & put in a sl1200. Very different turntables.
All of the Rega characteristics still add up to a unique, musical table. I am satisfied with the sound today & plan to keep my P3, but I am also ready for an upgrade, and I am not shopping for a Rega.

 

[tourmax]

WOW is basically a "warble" sound if it's bad enough to be audible. Or perhaps like a sound like a little "speeding up and slowing down". If you don't hear anything in the sound when playing a disc, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

My vintage Dual 149 belt drive returns measurements in the 0.04/0.05 range. My 1229Q is an idler drive and gets in the 0.05 range, but I've done a lot of work to that table.

Most vintage Japanese belt tables will do similar or better to the 1249 if in good shape. Direct drives can be even better (ie: lower).

But as I mentioned, if your table sounds good to you, I wouldn't worry about it much unless you want to try something different.

can't help you with the upgrade path, my stuff would all be considered "vintage"....

 

[rgiskad]

Thanks all.
I like it, and have enjoyed it. Will look at belt and possibly subplatter upgrade, but if there is any inconsistency in the sound due to it, it's very slight and not impacting enjoying an LP, at least for me.

I don't see any of the what I will call manual characteristics of the Rega, adjusting speed (I don't listen to 45s), VTA, cartridge, etc., as a real problem. It's not something that needs to be done with each listen, only when changing a cartridge, and that is not something I do or plan to do with any regularity. And it's not that hard. But I understand the critique.

 

[Tonoje]

I don't see any of the what I will call manual characteristics of the Rega, adjusting speed (I don't listen to 45s), VTA, cartridge, etc., as a real problem.

It won't bother everybody. They're just things I thought about more as time went on and I started comparing my Rega to alternatives that are (very affordably) available.

In particular, a question that every Rega user interested in applying upgrades might ask themselves: how much more money is worth actually putting into this thing? In my case, I eventually decided to stop, though this is after adding upgrades like the motor isolation base (bit of a pain in the arse, to be honest).

The thing is, you could spend over £1000 in upgrades and still have a turntable that tips if you touch it wrong, and has a feeble motor.

 

[jrtrent]

It won't bother everybody. They're just things I thought about more as time went on and I started comparing my Rega to alternatives that are (very affordably) available.

In particular, a question that every Rega user interested in applying upgrades might ask themselves: how much more money is worth actually putting into this thing? In my case, I eventually decided to stop, though this is after adding upgrades like the motor isolation base (bit of a pain in the arse, to be honest).

I'm a Rega fan but not much of an advocate for upgrades. I think it's best to audition your options, then buy the turntable model that will make you happy. I didn't buy a Rega until after the release of the RP3 (which came out in 2011); I had auditioned the earlier P3-24, but wasn't sure it would be satisfactory. I believe it was the double brace plinth and arm improvements in the RP3 that made the difference. Each generation of Regas gets better, and for someone with an older P2 or P3, stepping up to a current Planar 2 might be the most cost-effective upgrade, with even more performance available in the current Planar 3.

The thing is, you could spend over £1000 in upgrades and still have a turntable that tips if you touch it wrong, and has a feeble motor.

I've never experienced a Rega to tip, and I don't know what's feeble about their motors. They are strong enough to drive their platters, operating just like my Linn and Well Tempered turntables did, and they seem to last--a friend of mine has the original P1 from 2005, and its motor is still going strong.

 

[Tonoje]

Each generation of Regas gets better, and for someone with an older P2 or P3, stepping up to a current Planar 2 might be the most cost-effective upgrade, with even more performance available in the current Planar 3.

It might. Though for the price, alternatives are also available. The more so in America, I imagine, where new Regas are more expensive than in other markets, and no great bargain. The OP's current Rega was bought secondhand (albeit for a very low price), so I am going on the assumption that he doesn't object to secondhand or vintage. Once that door opens, it really extends the options: and that's the path I went down myself once I decided I didn't need to put more effort into my existing P3. But that's just me; and at the same time, I made the decision that moving up in the Rega lineup wasn't for me, nor was buying a next generation "3", or staying with Rega at all.

I've never experienced a Rega to tip

I'm sure that's the case with a lot of Rega owners. And owning a Rega is all about "you don't need this you don't need that" and "it's no trouble to lift the platter off to change speeds". I did experience tipping more than once though, and I'm not unusually clumsy, just prone to forget that the turntable only has one foot at the back. It makes a difference if you ever remove and replace the dustcover, which I do, as you have to work the hinge into the slot at each back corner - where there are no feet. So the point is, it can tip, and in my case, has done. Some people would just laugh it off, or learn to be a lot more careful, or shove something underneath it: eventually though, I just found the whole concept annoying, because I know it doesn't have to be this way. I know there are exceptions, but the standard number of feet for turntables is still four, and Rega isn't high-end enough to pretend otherwise.

My P3 suited my needs just fine for something like 12 to 15 years, and it could go for double that easily, but in the end I found other turntables that interest me far more, and moved on to something I like better.

 

[jrtrent]

. . . owning a Rega is all about "you don't need this you don't need that" and "it's no trouble to lift the platter off to change speeds". I did experience tipping more than once though, and I'm not unusually clumsy, just prone to forget that the turntable only has one foot at the back. It makes a difference if you ever remove and replace the dustcover, which I do, as you have to work the hinge into the slot at each back corner - where there are no feet. So the point is, it can tip, and in my case, has done. Some people would just laugh it off, or learn to be a lot more careful, or shove something underneath it: eventually though, I just found the whole concept annoying, because I know it doesn't have to be this way.

I can relate to how much operational conveniences can factor into a purchasing decision. The Well Tempered I bought was, as hoped, better sounding than my Linn, but I sold the WT because it had annoyances in operation that I just wasn't willing to live with.

I never thought of the Rega as annoying, but for a while I was forced to compare how different it was to live with a different type of turntable. Due to covid-related delays in getting a new Rega belt, I was stuck using my LP120XUSB, originally purchased just for playing 78's, for all my record playing. During the months I waited, I found the AT surprisingly engaging to listen to and very easy to live with. Standout features for my situation included direct drive operation--no belts needed!--and removable headshells. I reserved the stock VM95 body for 78's and mounted up a Sumiko Oyster on a separate headshell for lp's and 45's. I loved the handy headshell receptacle near the tonearm for storing the extra cartridge, and the threaded counterweight with accurate and easy-to-read vtf scale made swapping cartridges a quick, simple procedure. I got kind of spoiled being able to simply push a button to change speeds and even found surprisingly frequent use for its built-in phono stage.

In the absence of direct comparison, the AT proved plenty good enough to provide enjoyment from my records, and I found myself thinking that if I had to live with just one turntable, I might well choose the AT over the Rega. Fast forward a few years, now in a different state and having to start over building both a record collection and a humble stereo system, it is indeed a new LP120XUSB that I spin my records on.

 

[Tonoje]

During the months I waited, I found the AT surprisingly engaging to listen to and very easy to live with

I wasn't sure about the model number in my first comment in this thread, but I guess that's the "Technicsesque" AT, one of those 1200-ish models that I was referring to. I've heard good things about it. As those players from AT, Pioneer etc. are based on a tried and trusted Technics design, I think they would be quite a solid option: even if they're not as good as the true 1200's, they still share many or most of the features. Definitely convenient after a bare-bones Rega or Pro-ject. As it happens, I've never owned a Technics 1200 or one of the clones, but I think they'd be a good place to start for a lot of people. The only thing that kept me away from them really is that when I was looking at Japanese vintage turntables, I had so many choices that I didn't get a 1200 in the end. I sort of wanted something I wasn't already seeing everywhere I go. I still think they're great decks though.