Upgrading your System, and the Hierarchy of Stereo Components

[TunerLanding]

I am the proud owner of 2 vintage mid-fi systems that I enjoy very much. However, I had the opportunity to hear a High End (18k+) system last week in a hi-fi store and I'm going to be chasing that feeling. My strategy to upgrade my vinyl stereo is to prioritize upgrading my components as follows, as a general guideline assuming all my current components are equal in sound quality.
1. Cartridge 2. Speakers 3. Amplifier 4. Turntable 5. Wires/cables Does anybody disagree with this ranking? All components matter of course, but some are perhaps a faster leap up the sound quality ladder so to speak. Appreciate any thoughts on the subject thanks everyone. Please vote so I get a clear picture.

 

[Grenadeslio]

speakers, tonearm/turntable, phono stage, cartridge, amplifier, wires/cables.

 

[doctor fuse]

speakers, tonearm/turntable, phono stage, cartridge, amplifier, wires/cables.

Agree totally with Grenadeslio.

The speakers are your violin, the tonearm/turntable is your bow, the phono preamp is your bow arm, body and mind, the cartridge is your strings, bow hair and rosin (the strings + music might arguably be your vinyl LP), the amplifier is your left hand, your body, and your mind, and the wires/cables are your peripheries, like your bridge, tuning pegs, fine tuners, tail piece, chin rest, shoulder rest, etc.

Any other string players agree with this analogy?

 

[Will S.]

Transducers, mechanics, then everything else.

 

[dogscanskate]

Turntable deck, arm, cartridge, phono amp, preamp, power amp and speakers. Follow the signal, anything that is compromised along the way (ahead of the speakers) will be compromised at the last stage (which is the speakers). Contrary to most here, the least significant part of a system is its last link. Speakers are signal (what you feed them) and room dependant. Every component is critical, feed your system with a scratched up record, it doesn't matter anymore how good your components are. The whole system depends on the quality of the source material.

Use a deck with a defective bearing, does it matter how good your cartridge/speakers are? If your deck is wobbly, not level and not set up correctly, does it matter if you have 30K$ speakers? Any defective part along the signal path affects speaker performance and speakers cannot correct faults. Speaker/room (acoustics) is a whole new world that needs serious consideration. Mechanics, electronics and acoustics.... choose wisely.

 

[Will S.]

Turntable deck, arm, cartridge, phono amp, preamp, power amp and speakers. Follow the signal, anything that is compromised along the way (ahead of the speakers) will be compromised at the last stage (which is the speakers). Contrary to most here, the least significant part of a system is its last link. Speakers are signal (what you feed them) and room dependant. Every component is critical, feed your system with a scratched up record, it doesn't matter anymore how good your components are. The whole system depends on the quality of the source material.

Use a deck with a defective bearing, does it matter how good your cartridge/speakers are? If your deck is wobbly, not level and not set up correctly, does it matter if you have 30K$ speakers? Any defective part along the signal path affects speaker performance and speakers cannot correct faults. Speaker/room (acoustics) is a whole new world that needs serious consideration. Mechanics, electronics and acoustics.... choose wisely.

If anything is broken or bad anywhere in the signal path, it compromises the outcome. It doesn't matter exactly where it is or whether it's a source, amplifier or speaker. Given the OP's criteria and assumptions, the question boils down to where the biggest impact from an upgrade can be made.

 

[BamaBilly]

speakers, tonearm/turntable, phono stage, cartridge, amplifier, wires/cables.

That’s pretty close to fact IMHO

 

[dogscanskate]

If anything is broken or bad anywhere in the signal path, it compromises the outcome. It doesn't matter exactly where it is or whether it's a source, amplifier or speaker. Given the OP's criteria and assumptions, the question boils down to where the biggest impact from an upgrade can be made.

OP's criteria is: "most important vinyl stereo component". I still stand by my statement that the turntable deck is the most important component. It allows use of the best arm and cartridge combo that can then extract the most information from the record groove to feed the rest of the system. Whatever information is lost at the beginning will never, ever get retrieved in spite of owning the best speakers money can buy. That doesn't change. If cartridges, arms, decks and amps were similar (close enough in quality) then it would be a no brainer that speakers are the most important. Transducers are dependant on the quality of the electrical signal they receive.

At least, to my knowledge, I build from the source. The foundation of a stereo system has to be the turntable deck that will accommodate an arm and cartridge imho. Lucky for us that there are outstanding components that are very affordable, allowing us to splurge on other components down the line.

 

[JoeESP9]

You can have the greatest sounding source in the history of the world. It doesn't mean a thing if the speakers are Thrusters level.

If pressed I would say that the end transducers (cartridge/tone arm/TT, speakers) are the most important.

 

[dogscanskate]

You can have the greatest sounding source in the history of the world. It doesn't mean a thing if the speakers are Thrusters level.

If pressed I would say that the end transducers (cartridge/tone arm/TT, speakers) are the most important.

I see you don't use thrusters with your system . How we perceive the importance of the of the components may differ. I strongly believe that the platform upon which the tonearm/cartridge rests is critical to the retrieval of information. I wish it were that simple, get a good cart and good speakers and be done. The greatest sounding source in the history of the world will probably improve all the systems it will be connected too, even the one with the thrusters. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Will S.]

OP's criteria is: "most important vinyl stereo component". I still stand by my statement that the turntable deck is the most important component. It allows use of the best arm and cartridge combo that can then extract the most information from the record groove to feed the rest of the system. Whatever information is lost at the beginning will never, ever get retrieved in spite of owning the best speakers money can buy. That doesn't change. If cartridges, arms, decks and amps were similar (close enough in quality) then it would be a no brainer that speakers are the most important. Transducers are dependant on the quality of the electrical signal they receive.

At least, to my knowledge, I build from the source. The foundation of a stereo system has to be the turntable deck that will accommodate an arm and cartridge imho. Lucky for us that there are outstanding components that are very affordable, allowing us to splurge on other components down the line.

I get that if the information isn't captured in the first place, it can't be recovered later, but the inverse is also true. If the end of the chain can't reproduce the information it receives, then it doesn't matter if it gets picked up at the beginning. Hence, order is irrelevant. The chain is only as good as its weakest link, regardless of where that link is in the chain.

"Source first" was a great bit of marketing to help Linn sell LP12s, but the greatest variability and, hence, biggest impact is going to come from changing the transducers. In a vinyl-based system, that's the speakers and the cartridge. This is especially true with the OP's specification that the current system is of approximate equal quality.

 

[JoeESP9]

I see you don't use thrusters with your system . How we perceive the importance of the of the components may differ. I strongly believe that the platform upon which the tonearm/cartridge rests is critical to the retrieval of information. I wish it were that simple, get a good cart and good speakers and be done. The greatest sounding source in the history of the world will probably improve all the systems it will be connected too, even the one with the thrusters. That's just my opinion though.

Our thoughts are rather similar. Where we differ is our emphasis. Retrieve all the information you can from whatever. If the speakers can't reproduce it what's the point?

I've always been a speakers first guy. However, I don't believe in skimping on the TT/Arm/cartridge.

FWIW: My highly modified TT, a VPI HW-19/RB-300/Blackbird, sits on an isolation shelf attached to an external brick wall.

 

[E-Stat]

Please vote so I get a clear picture.

You're missing an essential component: the room. While you cannot likely change that alone, various room treatments can make a substantial difference.

 

[Grenadeslio]

OP's criteria is: "most important vinyl stereo component". I still stand by my statement that the turntable deck is the most important component. It allows use of the best arm and cartridge combo that can then extract the most information from the record groove to feed the rest of the system. Whatever information is lost at the beginning will never, ever get retrieved in spite of owning the best speakers money can buy. That doesn't change. If cartridges, arms, decks and amps were similar (close enough in quality) then it would be a no brainer that speakers are the most important. Transducers are dependant on the quality of the electrical signal they receive.

At least, to my knowledge, I build from the source. The foundation of a stereo system has to be the turntable deck that will accommodate an arm and cartridge imho. Lucky for us that there are outstanding components that are very affordable, allowing us to splurge on other components down the line.

Well, as the OP included speakers in his poll then he's asking about "the whole chain" not just the front end eh?

So again, speakers, arm/table, phono stage, cartridge, amplifier, wire/cables

As for the weakest link theory, a great arm and table can elevate a cheap cartridge far beyond where it has any right to be. A great cartridge is wasted on a Crosley.

there's a reason it's an accepted norm that speakers should be 50% of system budget minimum.

 

[dogscanskate]

Well, as the OP included speakers in his poll then he's asking about "the whole chain" not just the front end eh?

So again, speakers, arm/table, phono stage, cartridge, amplifier, wire/cables

As for the weakest link theory, a great arm and table can elevate a cheap cartridge far beyond where it has any right to be. A great cartridge is wasted on a Crosley.

there's a reason it's an accepted norm that speakers should be 50% of system budget minimum.

Which accepted norm exactly are you talking about? 50% for the last link? Coming from a guy that says a great arm and table can elevate a cheap cart's performance? Were your speakers missing out on the goodness of the cheap cart until you inserted that WT deck and arm????? You make my point my friend, lol. Deck, arm, cart, amps and speakers lol.

I sold systems and it rarely happened that 50% of the budget was applied to the speakers (once if I recall). That was a bygone era but if allotting that much to speakers, it's your money and if it works for you, great. I'm happy that you know what a great deck and arm can bring to a system as very few are aware of this.

Source first may have sold decks for Linn but we are finding out that a great deck like the Well Tempered is making people realise that great speakers can sound even better when driven by such a good front end. I wish I had speakers that cost 50% of my system (mine cost me 15$ and outdueled Proac Response 2.5's lol).

 

[Grenadeslio]

Which accepted norm exactly are you talking about? 50% for the last link? Coming from a guy that says a great arm and table can elevate a cheap cart's performance? Were your speakers missing out on the goodness of the cheap cart until you inserted that WT deck and arm????? You make my point my friend, lol. Deck, arm, cart, amps and speakers lol.

I sold systems and it rarely happened that 50% of the budget was applied to the speakers (once if I recall). That was a bygone era but if allotting that much to speakers, it's your money and if it works for you, great. I'm happy that you know what a great deck and arm can bring to a system as very few are aware of this.

Source first may have sold decks for Linn but we are finding out that a great deck like the Well Tempered is making people realise that great speakers can sound even better when driven by such a good front end. I wish I had speakers that cost 50% of my system (mine cost me 15$ and outdueled Proac Response 2.5's lol).

I have 7 tables, they all sound great through "my" speakers not just the WTL, but not so much through this.



And I would put money this would sound better through my system than my system through the PA horn above lol.



And speakers are winning by a landslide.


"Probably one of the first articles ever written for consumers (not hobbyists) about a home sound reproduction system was about how to budget or allocate money for it. Over the years recommendations have changed. I remember in the distant past there was the 1/3 rule – 1/3 for the speakers, 1/3 for the amp and 1/3 for the front end. Then I remember seeing the 50/50 rule – that one was ½ for the speakers and ½ for everything else. That one is still used by many salesmen and enthusiasts"

https://audiophilereview.com/room-acoustics/how-i-would-budget-10000-for-a-stereo-system/

 

[onwardjames]

Good hearing is very important.

Ears?

But yeah, speakers are in my opinion the single most important factor.

 

[TunerLanding]

You're missing an essential component: the room. While you cannot likely change that alone, various room treatments can make a substantial difference.

I actually considered putting room setup as an option but decided to stick with gear

 

[Will S.]

And speakers are winning by a landslide.

"Source first" is one of those ideas that has a certain contrarian attraction to it that allows people to feel like they have some sort of secretly superior knowledge. Unfortunately, it just doesn't hold up under more than cursory scrutiny and that's what's being reflected in the poll.

 

[z-adamson]

I am the proud owner of 2 vintage mid-fi systems that I enjoy very much. However, I had the opportunity to hear a High End (18k+) system last week in a hi-fi store and I'm going to be chasing that feeling. My strategy to upgrade my vinyl stereo is to prioritize upgrading my components as follows, as a general guideline assuming all my current components are equal in sound quality.
1. Cartridge 2. Speakers 3. Amplifier 4. Turntable 5. Wires/cables Does anybody disagree with this ranking? All components matter of course, but some are perhaps a faster leap up the sound quality ladder so to speak. Appreciate any thoughts on the subject thanks everyone. Please vote so I get a clear picture.

So, why try to come up with an order for this if you know that it will ALL need to be upgraded? Why does there need to be a "ranking"? And a "sound quality ladder"?

Just upgrade them all and forget about a "hierarchy"...

Both front and rear brakes need to be replaced on my truck, and I want to come up with an order of importance. See how this is useless? Rather than go down this road, I will just replace both and move on rather than dwell on "ranking" them.