Used HK 990 Arrived Damaged; Options? Thoughts?

[msg464]

The buyer does not choose how well the product is packaged. In many cases, the buyer is not offered a choice of shipping company, or shipping speed. The sender makes those decisions. By the way, shipping companies deal with the shipper in case of damage, not the receiver. (although the receiver has to make the damage known to the company, and allow them to inspect the packaging.) So again, the responsibility is on the seller/packager.

The BUYER is at the mercy of the seller, it is the SELLER who must take the responsibility for safe arrival of the item.

I agree with this. definitely at the mercy of the Seller. I've had to pass on certain pieces because the Sellers have treated it like a hassle when I've asked for special shipping, as if I were being too picky. Even when I've offered to pay - offering to have them simply drop it off at a UPS or FEDEX store, at which point I would coordinate the packing and shipping. I've had two people agree to do this, and it worked out great. costs more, but worth it to me when the equipment arrives undamaged.

In some cases, you'll come across other enthusiasts who will see that the equipment is properly packaged and protected. this is what I look for when I make purchases like this. buying used doesn't mean it has to be a crap shoot. just because it's used, one should expect it to arrive not as advertised, or expect some damage? disagree.

 

[spaghetti]

I would consider keeping the unit were he to make a significant concession for the damage. $100 just doesn't cut it.

I don't know the item final price, but I know you can ask for partial refund if you paid with paypal. In your case, I think 1/3 the value of the receiver is a good start.

During my years on ebay I got 1 rejected full refund (item and shipping) and 3 accepted partial refunds (about half the value of the item, always in the $100 range) , so partial refunds seem to yield well.

 

[restorer-john]

Well from what was posted above,it seems pretty clear that the seller sent the item in good faith, well packed in its original box and you are pretty sure it was handling that caused the problem.

Pretty cut and dried to me, and hardly the fault of the seller.

Anyway, it's not a total loss, it's just a few shattered spigots- fix it and move on.

Ebay can make up whatever policies they like- but at the end of the day, they are not enforceable. Ebay have made it clear over the years they are simply a clearing house and facilitator. No care and no responsibility. The contract is with you and the seller- Ebay have no part in any implied warranties or guarantees. Having Paypal and credit card link ups allowed them to lord over sellers (and their money) and tame the Wild West it was becoming, but sadly, it is now just a giant discount outlet riddled with junk and the occasional hidden jewels.

People need to realise that picking out those hidden jewels and buying 2nd hand on eBay means you take a significant risk from end to end. You will strike excellent sellers, dodgy scammers and everything in between. Accept that risk or go buy your stuff new.

I have always bought things assuming they will be a box of loose parts by the time they get to me. I pay accordingly and have never been disappointed, mostly I have been pleasantly surprised. In over a decade I've never asked for or got a refund. I see it as a giant yard sale- do you expect refunds and warranties from yard sale items? No.

 

[restorer-john]

spaghetti:

In relation to your German Radio. I agree it is sad, almost heartbreaking when something that has survived for all those years gets smashed on its last journey to a home where it would have been appreciated.

I also take the view that most people are boneheads when it comes to have even the faintest clue on how to dismantle, devise packaging and spend often hours manufacturing a suitable package for fragile things. I've spent a whole day on packaging for a Michel Turntable and built boxes from scratch along with hot wire cutting polystyrene for very large and heavy speakers. I've never had anything damaged that I have sent via everything from the post, to road, train and bus freight.

I once watched a video from Sony on how they test their packaging- it was a giant steel hamster wheel where they put a packaged hifi gear in and roll it around for several minutes and then inspect the contents. The boxes would fall and roll and bounce from corner to corner.

I am wondering if that volume control on the HK was one of those click in click out ones and it was released or released itself?

 

[markdi]

Looks like a easy fix to me

 

[msg464]

Well from what was posted above,it seems pretty clear that the seller sent the item in good faith, well packed in its original box and you are pretty sure it was handling that caused the problem.

Pretty cut and dried to me, and hardly the fault of the seller.

Anyway, it's not a total loss, it's just a few shattered spigots- fix it and move on.

Ebay can make up whatever policies they like- but at the end of the day, they are not enforceable. Ebay have made it clear over the years they are simply a clearing house and facilitator. No care and no responsibility. The contract is with you and the seller- Ebay have no part in any implied warranties or guarantees. Having Paypal and credit card link ups allowed them to lord over sellers (and their money) and tame the Wild West it was becoming, but sadly, it is now just a giant discount outlet riddled with junk and the occasional hidden jewels.

People need to realise that picking out those hidden jewels and buying 2nd hand on eBay means you take a significant risk from end to end. You will strike excellent sellers, dodgy scammers and everything in between. Accept that risk or go buy your stuff new.

I have always bought things assuming they will be a box of loose parts by the time they get to me. I pay accordingly and have never been disappointed, mostly I have been pleasantly surprised. In over a decade I've never asked for or got a refund. I see it as a giant yard sale- do you expect refunds and warranties from yard sale items? No.

dude, you must have low standards, or just be super laid back, in which case I envy you

I don't enter into any purchase agreements like this with the expectation that it's just a bonus if I'm "pleasantly surprised". it does happen, but usually in the way of cosmetic appearance, a case of photos not doing the piece justice; not functionality wise.

to clarify handling, I meant during the packing phase - not shipping, not unpacking.

if this doesn't work out to some measure of mutual satisfaction, I'll just have to be more careful in the future and not do anything to jeopardize my position under buyer protection policies, should it come to that in this case.

 

[msg464]

Looks like a easy fix to me

I have a few ideas, but what do you recommend? how would you go about it?

 

[msg464]

I don't know the item final price, but I know you can ask for partial refund if you paid with paypal. In your case, I think 1/3 the value of the receiver is a good start.

During my years on ebay I got 1 rejected full refund (item and shipping) and 3 accepted partial refunds (about half the value of the item, always in the $100 range) , so partial refunds seem to yield well.

good info/recommendation - thanks for this.

 

[restorer-john]

dude, you must have low standards, or just be super laid back, in which case I envy you

I guess I gave up many years ago expecting people to care about the things I cared about. I'm so fussy it's ridiculous with my own stuff and the effort I put into restorations is extreme. I've been a perfectionist and it isn't compatible with the world I live in. Things get broken. (I have a 6yo son!)

Now I just expect nothing from other people and I'm usually surprised. I also know there's really nothing I can't fix or find parts for.

20 years ago, I wouldn't touch something unless it came out of a sealed, perfect condition box- I'd inspect all the boxes and pick the best one.

 

[markdi]

I have a few ideas, but what do you recommend? how would you go about it?

I would have to see more pictures

I would probably use devocon plastic welder epoxy
I would only worry about functionality durability of the repair and making it look good - perfect - from the outside - with all panels and covers in place
You are worried about resale -like you i would be pissed
Get any refund or remedy you can then fix it
Are you sure parts are not available from hk ?

 

[More_Coffee]

Have a look at the plastic face plate.
Often the castings are dated and the type of polymer. Often its ABS ..it realy takes a pounding.

With that said.

OATS ABS Cement ..the same stuff used in plumbing, Got me out of a jam once.
Oats PVC Cement ...same as above.

Get a little on the end of a tooth pick and in a nook or corner ,out of sight and see if it will melt the plastic .

If it does .. well now your in the pipe .

Apply it to both sides of the parts to be welded , and fit them back together , the grab should be instant and the bond in a few hours..This isn't plumbing plastic.. It may take a few hours to a couple days to setup.

If not ..
A local hobby shop that does plastic models and rail road ,etc.. should have a myriad of glues for use on plastic's other than polystyrene.

Take a ride on the wild side ...Acetone or Lacquer Thinner.. I'll warn you ..its hot on most plastics. fit your pices together and use a small hobby paint brush, capillary action will pull the liquids through the gap , much like solder will flow towards the heat..
Man be careful ..its easy to make a molten mess if you spill it .

 

[weinstro]

Some things have changed. The seller is apparently no longer willing to accept the return after calling to speak with Ebay the other day.

Either work your claim through Paypal or,

Are you handy? Do you have a decent collection of tools? If so, go to your local auto parts store and buy some JB Weld. Next, go to Starbucks and get a free straw. Use the straw as a form to rebuild the posts. Mix the JB Weld. Slide the straw over the damaged posts and work the JB Weld into the straw. Let dry. Figure out the desired height for the posts and cut the straws with a Dremel cutoff wheel. Drill a small pilot hole into the post. Remount the volume pot, and carefully install those self-tapping screws.

Assuming that the pot isn't damaged (turns freely, resistance changes value smoothly with motion, etc.), total cost is $8. If the pot is damaged, then you need a replacement.

 

[sqlsavior]

I really don't understand why you don't simply repair it and put it down to experience.

For goodness sake, it's a second-hand item, shipped in good faith by a seller who completed his end of the bargain and something outside both his and your control damaged a few plastic spigots for a volume pot/encoder.

Why should the poor seller have to wear a total loss? The attitude around here of returning things that get damaged is unbelievable- they are second-hand items being sent through third party freight companies. I take the view, if you want protection, take out insurance, as the item is YOURS once it is paid for and the responsibility for safe transit belongs to YOU.

I've had things damaged but I've never sent anything back or asked for a refund because that's the risk I take buying that way. If I want refunds, guarantees etc, I'll buy brand new, in a box and take it home in my car.

I strongly disagree, and wish I had immediately filed a not-as-described complaint when I received an expensive item damaged in shipment due to inadequate packaging by the IDIOT who sold and shipped it. No way would I take the hit myself if I were you, not on an expensive item at least.

 

[msg464]

I guess I gave up many years ago expecting people to care about the things I cared about. I'm so fussy it's ridiculous with my own stuff and the effort I put into restorations is extreme. I've been a perfectionist and it isn't compatible with the world I live in. Things get broken. (I have a 6yo son!)
Now I just expect nothing from other people and I'm usually surprised. I also know there's really nothing I can't fix or find parts for.
20 years ago, I wouldn't touch something unless it came out of a sealed, perfect condition box- I'd inspect all the boxes and pick the best one.

I'm the same with my own stuff.
laughing at your last comment - picking the best looking box. I've done that.

I would have to see more pictures
I would probably use devocon plastic welder epoxy
I would only worry about functionality durability of the repair and making it look good - perfect - from the outside - with all panels and covers in place
You are worried about resale -like you i would be pissed
Get any refund or remedy you can then fix it
Are you sure parts are not available from hk ?

thanks for the recommendation.
yes, as of a week ago, the part was no available through HK.
I opened a case with Ebay and am just riding out the timeline now.

Have a look at the plastic face plate.
Often the castings are dated and the type of polymer. Often its ABS ..it realy takes a pounding.
With that said.
OATS ABS Cement ..the same stuff used in plumbing, Got me out of a jam once.
Oats PVC Cement ...same as above.
Get a little on the end of a tooth pick and in a nook or corner ,out of sight and see if it will melt the plastic .
If it does .. well now your in the pipe .
Apply it to both sides of the parts to be welded , and fit them back together , the grab should be instant and the bond in a few hours..This isn't plumbing plastic.. It may take a few hours to a couple days to setup.
If not ..
A local hobby shop that does plastic models and rail road ,etc.. should have a myriad of glues for use on plastic's other than polystyrene.
Take a ride on the wild side ...Acetone or Lacquer Thinner.. I'll warn you ..its hot on most plastics. fit your pices together and use a small hobby paint brush, capillary action will pull the liquids through the gap , much like solder will flow towards the heat..
Man be careful ..its easy to make a molten mess if you spill it .

thanks for these repair recommendations. yeah, I was wondering what I could use to really stick this stuff. I think I would have to find some plastic dowel to cut down, fasten, and drill. the existing posts are mostly destroyed, and I don't even think I have all the bits. I tried to collect as much as I could.

Either work your claim through Paypal or,
Are you handy? Do you have a decent collection of tools? If so, go to your local auto parts store and buy some JB Weld. Next, go to Starbucks and get a free straw. Use the straw as a form to rebuild the posts. Mix the JB Weld. Slide the straw over the damaged posts and work the JB Weld into the straw. Let dry. Figure out the desired height for the posts and cut the straws with a Dremel cutoff wheel. Drill a small pilot hole into the post. Remount the volume pot, and carefully install those self-tapping screws.
Assuming that the pot isn't damaged (turns freely, resistance changes value smoothly with motion, etc.), total cost is $8. If the pot is damaged, then you need a replacement.

that's a great idea for rebuilding/fabbing posts. I was thinking I'd need to find some plastic rod to somehow weld/fix onto the panel, now using the methods others have detailed above, but this fabrication idea sounds like it might be better and easier than my idea of trying to make posts out of plastic rod.
yeah, I have a decent set of tools, dremel and such. you talking the metal JB Weld or is there a plastic fix version as well?

I strongly disagree, and wish I had immediately filed a not-as-described complaint when I received an expensive item damaged in shipment due to inadequate packaging by the IDIOT who sold and shipped it. No way would I take the hit myself if I were you, not on an expensive item at least.

I agree, and this is where I am right now.

I tried one last time to negotiate with the seller earlier this week. no dice. he has reversed his initially helpful stance entirely, and his response has been very short and limited.

I've had to open a case with Ebay for resolution, but I have to wait until next week to escalate if the seller doesn't respond to the case before then. I've asked him to go ahead and respond to the case since he's already made his decision, but he hasn't answered. I've never had to do this before, so I'm not sure what to expect. like you, I now wish I'd simply reported it immediately instead of proceeding with the inspection and communications with the seller. frankly, I just never considered that it would end up here like this. he seemed like a good guy all along from our transaction correspondence. I think he really thinks the unit wasn't damaged when he shipped it, or maybe he didn't realize that it was. I think he probably thinks that I did it while unpacking, or am otherwise trying to take him for a ride. I'm almost certain that it was damaged during the packing phase before shipping, though. It could very easily happen, and I can't really see it happening any other way at this point. I think I read in a review for this unit that out of the box, you have to install the volume knob when setting it up. I'm very careful with my stuff, and have worked with similar HK before. I heard the rattling as I maneuvered it out of the OE box before removing it from the shroud. this is going to be difficult to prove, though, and my cooperation and willingness to work through the matter with the seller may very well end up screwing me in the end. just seemed like a good guy, so I felt confident all along that he would make things right in the end if the repair research didn't pan out, which it didn't. the sudden reversal of position came as a shock. terribly unfortunate experience at this point.

so what happened in your case? did Ebay help you out, or did you have to eat it?

If it doesn't work out with Ebay, I may still be able to try again with PayPal. not sure.

 

[msg464]

Hey guys, just wanted to post back with some news. Since I wasn't able to reach a mutually satisfactory agreement with the Seller, I opened a case for resolution with Ebay a little less than a week ago. There was a bit of back and forth discussion, and in the end, Ebay decided that I'm to return the item to the Seller for refund of purchase price and original shipping. I pay return shipping. Considering how this might have gone, I don't mind taking the beating on return shipping. Note that Ebay's new policy effective Sept 15, 2014 states that in cases of return, the Seller is responsible for return shipping. I've only been a Buyer up to this point, but do have some equipment to sell. I do wonder, since I've heard some stories of Ebay not being so kind to Sellers, whether I'll have any problems when I go to sell my gear. I hope not. I suppose there's always Audiogon to consider, as well, for serious buyers.

So, I'm to return the item, and if I don't receive the refund within 3 days of seller receipt, Ebay will make the refund on Seller's behalf.

I tried to work things out with the Seller right up until the end before opening the case, offering to keep the unit and repair it were he able to offer fair compensation for the damage with respect to:

• Unexpected damage
• Inability to obtain OE parts
• Impact to resale value
• Consideration for shipping, and
• Though not stated, the hassle/disappointment factor.

He wouldn't budge on what he thought was fair compensation for the damage - $100. Considering that I'd also willingly paid him an unsolicited "bonus" through PayPal outside of the transaction, just in the interest of fairness, essentially splitting the difference on his original asking price and the best offer, he was really only offering me a $50 concession on a unit I'd paid a premium for with my understanding that it was in exceptional condition, and instead, turned out to be damaged as described in the original post.

It's been a rough ride. I didn't realize how rough until I had word of Ebay's decision yesterday and realized the relief I felt. I've read about others' nightmares with purchases, but my experiences have been all good up until this point. I still don't believe the Seller necessarily knew about the damage, or intentionally misrepresented the item; I'm pretty sure it was simply damaged during packing, and was an unfortunate accident that could have been prevented by simply removing the volume knob, or packing on a cushy surface. Terribly unfortunate, but as the Buyer paying premium asking price, not my responsibility at all.

I've learned a few things through this process. A lot of this seems like common sense, but it's easy to get carried away when you get a new toy. Despite pleasantries during the transaction process, and despite your excitement when you receive the new gear, consider putting that all aside temporarily, and make the time to fully document your un-packaging process. It may save you down the road should you have to return the item.

• Take photos of the shipping carton
• Take photos along the way of your unwrapping
• Look for and make note of anything out of the ordinary, and pay attention to any sounds indicating loose components/parts/hardware.
• If you find anything, stop immediately, and contact the Seller.
• If you want to proceed further, make sure you get the okay from the Seller, in writing, before you do.
• Take your time to make sure everything works before you "accept" the item, and begin to use it as you normally would, whatever that means for you. This part of the process almost screwed me, and knowing what I know now, I would have proceeded differently. I didn't realize the volume knob was broken until a day later. I'm pretty particular about my stuff, and typically remove the covers of equipment I buy for cleaning before I put a piece into permanent operation. To me, this is standard use, and not invasive, inappropriate, or damaging. Few Sellers would agree/feel comfortable with it, myself included. There are a bunch of knuckleheads out there who really have no business having access to tools and other sharp or pointy things. I shared this information with the Seller in casual discussion, since I thought we had good rapport, and he ultimately tried to use it against me to make the case that I voided Ebay's return policy. In actuality, it appears that Ebay has no return policy, as such. The agreement would be between Buyer and Seller. Ebay, as noted by another poster, is simply a transaction facilitator, though they do have guidelines in place to help ensure a safe transaction environment. Anyway, don't do what I did unless you're sure you're satisfied with it and everything works to your satisfaction.
• Make sure you save all correspondence with the Seller throughout the transaction, and conduct all correspondence through the messaging system, not by phone, email, txt or any other means outside of Ebay's messaging
• Familiarize yourself with Ebay's - or anyone else's for that matter - return/protection policies, and make sure you don't do anything that may void your protection.
• Above all else, try your best to be polite and cooperative with all parties. This is obviously Customer Service/Negotiations 101. As frustrating and nerve racking as this sort of thing can be, you're not likely to get very far by being abusive.

It took a lot of effort on my part, and it almost went the other way in the intial discussion with Ebay, but in the end, it was the correspondence with the Seller that saved me in this situation, I think, and the immediate contact I made when I discovered the loose screws while unpacking. Ebay's response in the end restored my confidence in the purchasing system and their protection policy. You should still be very careful in your purchasing decisions, but if you stick to the rules and guidelines they set forth - I didn't take the time to really read them beforehand - you should be okay to make your purchases confidently, and be protected when things don't go as planned.

I'll need to do some similar research before I become a Seller. I've noticed some very descriptive ads, especially where blemishes and such are concerned. This is a good thing from a Buyer's perspective, since it helps ensure that Sellers are fully disclosing item condition details, though I'm sure possibly a little disconcerting as a Seller.

Hope others might learn a little something from my experience with this.

Thanks for all the suggestions and input along the way, fellas.