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Using the 4100 as a preamp

motorstereo said:
Even at low volumes I feel the same way with my 4100. I've also had it paired up with a pair of strapped 2100's with similar results. The 4100 by itself is fine but there is a little something extra and better when paired up with a 200 wpc amp. In my case my thinking is it's the not so efficient ML1C's benefiting from the extra current. But with a pair of Klipsch, Altecs or some other very efficient speaker where 75wpc is on the verge of overkill the synergy just might be with the 4100 all by itself.
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Yes! I still have a nice pair of KLH Model Six's, and the 4100 was made for them.
 
So far all I've tried my 4100 on is my Mac ML1C's. It's a shame I didn't have it a few months ago while my Bozak Concert Grands were still in that set up. The best I heard the CG's sound was from a restored Yamaha C4-M4 combo and I see where you think your 4100 is better than the C4.
 
Of course the C4 was stock and the 4100 is recapped, so not really a fair comparison. Nonetheless, the 4100 is a wonderful pre.
 
sberger said:
Well when I bought the 4100 I assumed it would be more then adequate to drive to full potential my AR speakers. While they sound good with it, amps that I own with 200 plus watts do a better job of really opening them up. So potentially just going with a preamp/tuner might make more sense.
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I use an MX113 with a Carver power amp that goes 250 watts and really like the combination. The Mc has a much nicer sound than the Cambridge Audio integrated I was using as preamp with Carver.
 
I have a 4300V that I would like to use as a pre. I traded in my 4100 so I could use a remote (lazy, I guess).
I will definitely use a Mc power amp though. As I run multiple pairs of speakers, looking forward to hearing the combo while also using the 4300 to power a pair.
 
While the MAC4300 does not have the horseshoe type jumpers, it has make/ break RCA plugs, you still use a set of y plugs to get the output to the new stand alone amp.
 
Yes, I understand that if I didn't want to use the 4300 amp for a pair of speakers, I'd need to put caps into the power amp in plugs. But are you saying I need to split out of the pre amp out plugs and loop one set back into those power amp in plugs? Thanks.
 
EyeGee said:
Yes, I understand that if I didn't want to use the 4300 amp for a pair of speakers, I'd need to put caps into the power amp in plugs. But are you saying I need to split out of the pre amp out plugs and loop one set back into those power amp in plugs? Thanks.
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The MAC4300 does not need jumpers; connections to the main amplifier section are internal. This allows the preamplifer outputs to be used without breaking the connections to the 4300's main amplifier enabling the MAC4300's main amplifier to remain in use without the need for Y connectors.
 
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I always used a set of y cords. I will check the 4300 schematic to confirm the location of the make/break RCA jacks.
 
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On the MAC4200, 4280 & 4300, the break only occurs when an IC connection is made at the MAIN IN input jacks.
 
Thanks guys. I've added in a 2120 for the main speakers, using the 4300V as a pre-amp and also powering 2 pair of back speakers through it. It sounds fantastic, but I am pondering dropping the 2120 input sensitivity to .75 volts so I can get a bit more volume differential between front and back (rear speakers are 6 ohm, front 8 ohm). I'm having to push the volume on the 4300 but the entire system is dead quiet, very nice. I understand setting the gain on the 2120 at 12 o'clock would produce about 1.5 volts, thoughts on the effect on the S/N ratio? I am not a loud volume listener (neighbor considerations!) but would like to hear more of my principal (front) Focal speakers. Thanks again.
 
When I used my MAC4300 in the same way with an MC2125, I experienced no noise issues with the 0.75 V setting. May have to reduce the GAINs somewhat until you have it just right.

I had found it preferable to run the fronts from the MAC and the outboard amplifier to the rear speakers and use the gains to balance with the fronts.
 
Ha! Well, unfortunately, the Mc/Focal combo not the best for rock 'n roll although it gets better the louder you go. Sonic Smith's guitar could cut just about anything ....
 
sberger said:
I knew somebody would ask that. No I never get that loud. But loudness isn't really the issue. In fact, it's how the AR's sound with a bigger amp when the music is not loud. At lower levels the overall bass response and tonality stays pretty much the same with the bigger amp then it does with the 4100. I can get similar results with the 4100 but I have to jack up the volume quite bit, so that overall it's much louder. And that is something I prefer (and a certain women in the house) would prefer I didn't do.

I used to be skeptical when the recommendation for driving older AR speakers was big watts/high current, but I think I have a better understanding as to why that is now that I own them. It's so they open up completely without having to raise the volume too much, lest you blow out the fragile tweeter/mid.

That all said, I haven't given up on the 4100, especially since I can use it as a preamp anyway, and it's been restored.
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Ever try out the variable loudness?
 
Sure, and it does as advertised.

Lately I have gone back to using the 4100 as an amp for one side of my AR stack, and my Adcom GFA 5400 amp for the other. Using 2 amps definitely takes away the stress of driving that tough load and results in an overall more effortless, well balanced sound, at least to my ears. I'm using a Decware CSP2 tube pre for both amps.
 
^^^^^^It's fun trying out different combos isn't it. My 4100 is driving a pair of NHT super zeros presently just having just replaced my 1700 in that capacity for a while. It seems to doing a great job on them as well.
 
So here it is all these years later, and I want to do basically the same thing... use the 4100 as a pre/tuner to possibly drive a PAIR of McIntosh MC2200s for my recently restored Ar3A s. How exactly would I hook that up?
Thanks!
 
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