USS Iowa comes back to life for its final voyage

[Sam Cogley]

There were actually 6 Iowa class battleships. Illinois (BB 65) and Kentucky (BB 66). Illinois was only 22% complete when she was scrapped, but Kentucky made it to more than 70% complete and was actually launched. They messed around with her for more than a decade, Including a conversion to an all missile armament. When Wisconsin went aground in the 50's, the bow of Kentucky was cut off and used to repair Wisconsin. So that much of her still remains. Oddly, they even made a new bow for her, but that just sat on the deck until she was finally scrapped.

And their rather unusual steam turbine engines were pulled to use in a couple of fleet tenders built in the 50s, something that proved to be a saving grace when the Iowas were reactivated in the mid-80s. Even though they did pull in quite a few reservists to teach the new guys how to run their systems, they already had engineers trained on the powerplants.

 

[JohnVF]

They were (and are) awesome ships but their armor wouldn't do a whole lot of good today except against a terrorist-boat type attack. Torpedoes today don't strike the ship directly on its side (some didn't then, either)...they blow up underneath the keel of the ship, the cavitation and collapse of the water into the hole created by the explosion breaking the back of the ship. The ship that survives the day will be the one that defeats the guidance or incoming missile, or takes out the threat first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAWrkvyYdc&feature=related

^^that's a much smaller ship than the Iowa but the Iowa class is not heavily armored outside of its main armor belt and deck (within the armored box area). And when you're looking at supersonic anti-ship missiles, 16" guns aren't all that devastating given their short range.

I think the biggest issue with them was the amount of manpower needed to run them...not to mention dwindling supplies for the gun barrels, shells, etc. Weren't they using cordite from decades ago? I thought that had something to do with the turret explosion on Iowa in the '80s.

They'd be nice 'show of force' ships and as decoys like they were in the first gulf war (indicating a sea invasion from off Kuwait instead of end-around through Iraq).

 

[jocko_nc]

Yea, but they are so darn cool...

 

[JHS2RT]

And let's not forget the USS Salem (CA-139) the flagship cruiser of the 6th fleet based now in Quincy,Mass as a floating showpiece for tourists..
My father was the ships surgeon in 1956 and 1957. We lived in Nice,France.

 

[WhiteSE]

Very interesting, in particular I would like to see how well one of the Iowa's could deal with a hit from one of those. With armour 16" thick I am inclined to believe that skipper

Some discussion on the subject...
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/8838

who knows what was the thickness of the Belgrano, that was destroyed by a torpedo....I assume a fish has more blasting power than an Exocet, but less kinetic energy to penetrate.

 

[Tom Brennan]

who knows what was the thickness of the Belgrano, that was destroyed by a torpedo....I assume a fish has more blasting power than an Exocet, but less kinetic energy to penetrate.

During WW II many battleships were sunk by torpedoes including the Musashi and Yamato, the largest and most heavily armored battleships ever built.

 

[Bigerik]

Belgrano was a Brooklyn class light cruiser (Phoenix ??), and as such would have comparably no armor to speak of.

 

[JohnVF]

I bet one modern torpedo could have sunk Yamato. I'd love to know what they tested on the USS America.

 

[bobabode]

I was part of the Marine Honor Guard for the recommissioning ceremony of the New Jersey in Long Beach, CA in 1982. I was stationed at Pendleton, they had us come up and direct traffic and pedestrians, etc. Somewhere I have a nice commemorative pamphlet from that ceremony. Very cool ship.

I had a cap from that event that I wore out, I did keep the patch.:yes: That must've been a cool assignment Wigwam Jones. Hat's off to all you vets here!

I've been getting a little bit of a free airshow here in SoCal, there's an air museum close by giving rides on a B17 "Fuddy Duddy" and they are flying over my place, pretty cool plane!!

Yeaaa, I just read that the museum's going to be only a dozen miles or so from here, VERY COOL!

 

[rnorton]

who knows what was the thickness of the Belgrano, that was destroyed by a torpedo....I assume a fish has more blasting power than an Exocet, but less kinetic energy to penetrate.

Exocets work well on ships with idiotic aluminum superstructures. They burn right down to the waterline. We used to make a lot of those.

 

[rnorton]

who knows what was the thickness of the Belgrano, that was destroyed by a torpedo....I assume a fish has more blasting power than an Exocet, but less kinetic energy to penetrate.

2 modern torpedoes can probably sink a supercarrier in 5 minutes or less by cavitation. I've seen video of one such torpedo snapping a decommissioned destroyer in two and sinking it in under a minute. Surface ships are SO 20th century. Of course, we always prepare to fight the last war instead of the next one. Torpedoes have come a long way since the Falklands war.

 

[rnorton]

During WW II many battleships were sunk by torpedoes including the Musashi and Yamato, the largest and most heavily armored battleships ever built.

Yamato took at least 11 torpedoes and 6 bombs. In the end, it was the detonation of one of the magazines, after the ship had already capsized to 120 degrees that broke her in two and sank her.

I went to school with a son of one of the bomber pilots, who had built an 8' long model of the Yamato in his den.

 

[rnorton]

I bet one modern torpedo could have sunk Yamato. I'd love to know what they tested on the USS America.

USS America had charges placed on the hull and superstructure to simulate torpedo, missile and even Zodiac attacks. She was still afloat after several days of this so she was scuttled.

They obviously didn't simulate a modern cavitating torpedo. The idea that anyone other than our 'allies' might have access to them is apparently regarded as unlikely by the Navy.

 

[Sam Cogley]

I have a rather rare 5' long balsa and metal model kit of the Missouri made by Sterling waiting for me to have the time and space to build it. There are some people who make very nice fiberglass hulls and metal gun barrels for them. Just don't have a place and funds to work on it right now, so it stays tucked away in the box. I found it at an auction for about 1/25 of the going rate.

 

[JohnVF]

2 modern torpedoes can probably sink a supercarrier in 5 minutes or less by cavitation.

One of the videos I linked to earlier showed the effects of cavitation on a small warship. All the belt-armor in the world isn't going to help much when the detonation is meant to break your keel in two. Some of the newer anti-ship missiles make the Exocet look pretty tame, too. In a major conflict involving surface fleets, it seems fleets could be reduced to what the WWI German and British fleets were-- too precious to actually use in combat, lest the war be lost in an afternoon.

 

[Bigerik]

I bet one modern torpedo could have sunk Yamato. I'd love to know what they tested on the USS America.

Maybe.

Yamato actually had a flaw in her side armor. One of the joints was actually poorly designed, so the beams would penetrate the internal bulkheads, rather than supporting them. That's why she actually sank so easily. So to speak.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Surface ships are SO 20th century. Of course, we always prepare to fight the last war instead of the next one.

Which helps explain why the American navy, ever ready to refight Midway, Santa Cruz and the Philipine Sea, has so many carriers. Our version of the Maginot Line (though the Maginot Line did work).

Does the modern American navy have conflict between the submariners (arguably the true modern capital ship) and aviators the way the pre WW II navy had conflict between the gunship men and aviators?

 

[Sandy G]

I, by no means, have ANY formal naval training whatsoever, but it just seems to me that our modern carriers are basically sitting ducks for some of the more sophisticated long-range ordnance that's out there today-Cruise missiles, f'r instance.

 

[usedto]

I could tell you about other places the USS IOWA could (should) have gone, but that would get the thread closed down.

 

[JohnVF]

Maybe.

Yamato actually had a flaw in her side armor. One of the joints was actually poorly designed, so the beams would penetrate the internal bulkheads, rather than supporting them. That's why she actually sank so easily. So to speak.

She also had a flaw in her left/right counter-flooding, IIRC, something to do with the centerline bulkhead (its been awhile since I read "A glorious way to die"- good book, BTW). A super-cavitation torpedo would solve that problem, so to speak. Without a bottom, both sides of the ship would flood equally...

Given the number of planes sent against her, and her relatively non-effective AA, she didn't stand a chance anyway. What a waste of a ship (and lives). Of course, she was eventually made into a space cruiser and saved the world.