V15 III JICO VN35HE non-SAS vs. SAS

[Zinfan]

Hi - I have a V15 III and I am thinking about adding a new stylus to my Christmas wish list. In doing some searching and reading on the JICO Stylus here, there is one question that seems to be unclear to me.

Will the JICO SAS only sound great with records in really good condition and sound poor with the well used records? Thus, if you have many well used records, like me, it is best to get the non-SAS JICO Stylus.

I see opinions that lean towards the JICO SAS is only good for your high quality records. And others who say the JICO SAS is just all around awesome period.

Thanks for advice in advance.

 

[markd51]

Hi - I have a V15 III and I am thinking about adding a new stylus to my Christmas wish list. In doing some searching and reading on the JICO Stylus here, there is one question that seems to be unclear to me.

Will the JICO SAS only sound great with records in really good condition and sound poor with the well used records? Thus, if you have many well used records, like me, it is best to get the non-SAS JICO Stylus.

I see opinions that lean towards the JICO SAS is only good for your high quality records. And others who say the JICO SAS is just all around awesome period.

Thanks for advice in advance.

Zinfan,
Generally, I hear the exact opposite being said-claimed about cartridges with a micro-line/line contact Stylus, versus standard-elliptical, or hyper-elliptical.

The reason behind this, is that these more radical stylus profiles reach deeper into the groove, contacting areas that other stylus profiles have never touched-played. Thier smaller Stylus size-shape-profile gets through-traces groove modulations faster, usually displaying less bloom, and less surface-groove noise. Ticks, and pops are usually less noticeable, obtrusive.

Only downside of these ultra tiny, state of the art stylus profiles, since they reach further into the groove, and actually contact more groove wall than simpler designs, is that they are prone to pick up more crud-dirt from the groove. A simple matter to maintain with the Mr Clean Magic Eraser, do a simple dunk or two per each side of LP to maintain a pristine clean Stylus.

As I say above, they usually require more care in the Stylus cleaning department, and will command pristine clean vinyl as well to get the best from them.

Usually Cartridges with these type of Stylus profiles play extremely quiet in the groove, making even old, used records sound like new, just bought ones.

I say spend the little extra money involved, and treat yourself to the Jico SAS. I have one, and have no regrets of the purchase. Mark

 

[lplover]

I have read that the SAS model is quite sensitive in terms of setup (VTA, VTF, etc). I have the HE version and am delighted with it-plus it's less $$.

 

[ETI_5000]

The SAS stylus is Jico’s version of the microridge/microline stylus shape, and in fact they boast that it’s better, due to being thinner from front to back. My experience with a microridge stylus (Shure V15VMR) has been that it will play quite worn records well that other stylus shapes like elliptical, conical and hyper-elliptical will distort badly playing. It seems to access unworn parts of the grooves that they can’t reach, as Markd51 said. It’s not foolproof - I have bought used records which were so badly worn nothing would play them and produce reasonable sound! But on records which most definitely weren’t abused (my own!), but were favourites from my young days in the 1970’s, and had received a lot of play with mainly elliptical stylii at low (less than 2g) stylus pressures, I was astonished at how much better they sounded with the MR stylus, and I think the same would be true with the SAS stylus.

-Don

 

[markd51]

I have read that the SAS model is quite sensitive in terms of setup (VTA, VTF, etc). I have the HE version and am delighted with it-plus it's less $$.

I agree with this, due to this Stylus' more radical profile, that the benefits of it's use will be dependent upon critical alignment, both in regards to Overhang, and Zenith Angle (how the Cartridge Sits correctly in the Headshell, and that it is not erroneously twisted)

It will be important, that the sides of the Stylus itself properly contact the record's groove wall, being that these Stylus' exhibit very narrow sides that contact the groove wall.

Yes, and because of thier shape, an Octahedral profile, VTA, and VTF are as well important to extract the extra performance they can offer.

I'm not sure about the HE version, but the SAS sports a Boron Canilever, which is sleeved onto the rest of the existing Cantilever, and is no doubt probably side bonded like other state of the art cartridges of the present.

Looking at the pictures, and diagrams which LP Gear provided with my Shure V-15 III Jico SAS, this Stylus bears very close resemblence to the Stylus on my ZYX Airy 3X Moving Coil Cartridge. Mark

 

[ETI_5000]

Looking at the pictures, and diagrams which LP Gear provided with my Shure V-15 III Jico SAS, this Stylus bears very close resemblence to the Stylus on my ZYX Airy 3X Moving Coil Cartridge. Mark

Yes, according to Zyx' specifications, the Airy cartridges have a micro-ridge stylus. The SAS is similar, with a thin ridge around the sides to produce a very thin stylus edge for tracking, but with meat in the middle to prevent it flexing or bending. The AT microline stylii are the same.

-Don

 

[Zinfan]

Thanks for all of the responses. So the SAS over the non-SAS would be very good for generally all records in good used condition, but, it may be hard to find the sweet spot in setup.

 

[ETI_5000]

Thanks for all of the responses. So the SAS over the non-SAS would be very good for generally all records in good used condition, but, it may be hard to find the sweet spot in setup.

Yes, they just require a bit more care with alignment, whereas a conical stylus, to use the cheapest example, will tolerate some misalignment, but won't have the same audio resolution.

-Don

 

[pustelniakr]

I think youwill find, as have I, that the SAS for the V15-III is very forgiving and sonically pleasing. I do not find it overly sensitive to alignment. I currently have that combo installed on a Pioneer PL-112 table, which has no VTF adjustment. It sounds quite nice indeed.

My 2 cents...

Enjoy,
Rich P

 

[Zinfan]

I think youwill find, as have I, that the SAS for the V15-III is very forgiving and sonically pleasing. I do not find it overly sensitive to alignment. I currently have that combo installed on a Pioneer PL-112 table, which has no VTF adjustment. It sounds quite nice indeed.

My 2 cents...

Enjoy,
Rich P

Well I got the JICO SAS and I am very impressed. It is a winner. My records are sounding great. :thmbsp:

Thanks for everyone's advice!

 

[Jim M]

Thanks for the update Zinfan.
It's great when people come back later and let us know their final outcome for these types of questions.
The V15 Type III is one of my favorite cartridges and I use the JICO SAS with it.
I take reasonable care during cartridge setup for alignment but I would not say I am overly critical about it and I have had no problems. It sounds great to me and has always been my "Go To" cartridge.
I know you will enjoy it

 

[BrocLuno]

Good to hear about another happy SAS customer. Best way to keep the old V-15's running

 

[93Cobra]

Thanks for the update Zinfan.
It's great when people come back later and let us know their final outcome for these types of questions.
The V15 Type III is one of my favorite cartridges and I use the JICO SAS with it.
I take reasonable care during cartridge setup for alignment but I would not say I am overly critical about it and I have had no problems. It sounds great to me and has always been my "Go To" cartridge.
I know you will enjoy it

I just bought a used Shure V15 type III and mated it with the JICO SAS. Carefully set the VTA/VTF as best I can do on my Pioneer PL-71 TT. All I can say is WOW...sweet music to my ears!!!! Does not pickup much surface noise (as do others I have used) probably due to the stylus design. Best cart/stylus combo I have heard to date for a reasonable price.

 

[Sticklyman]

I've got the JICO SAS, and it has been great so far. I haven't noticed any problems with worn, used records sounding bad. Most of my records aren't the cleanest either (I have kind of a dust problem in my apartment) and they're still great with the SAS. I'd say go for it.