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Variable Loudness Control

Panamafred

Panamafred

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Just dragged home a Denon PRA-1200 preamplifier... love the looks and some features but this one knob is really bugging me.

I don't like eq's I don't like tone controls and I really don't like this variable Loudness control knob! This is my living room system and I want playback to be as simple as possible because it is very easy for me to slip in to back and forth fiddling with settings.

To make matters worse this knob is hidden behind a door, making adjusting this on the fly kind of annoying.

I would like to assume with the knob at "flat" that nothing is being added or changed with the signal but I'm afraid that isn't the case.

User manual was unhelpful and most of what I read online was people loving being able to fine tune the sound.

I want to set it and forget it!
Advice???

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mikehd said:
I suspect it is like my Yamahas' variable loudness. Flat is off.
Click to expand...


Okay, so flat is off? Turning it up deadens the sound... so it seems very counter intuitive.

I wish the tone bypass control would bypass this knob !

Thank you so much for the quick replies.
 
Panamafred said:
Okay, so flat is off? Turning it up deadens the sound... so it seems very counter intuitive.

I wish the tone bypass control would bypass this knob !

Thank you so much for the quick replies.
Click to expand...
Raising the control increases the bass and the treble to a lesser extent. The reason is to compensate for the characteristics of human hearing at low listening levels.

Strictly speaking it’s not a tone control per se. It’s more along the lines of an environmental EQ except it’s compensating for hearing deficiencies rather those caused by the acoustics of the room. This is unlike tone controls which are more or less intended to be adjusted to taste and/or recorded material. This is why loudness compensation circuits are usually kept from being affected by tone bypass controls.
 
On a Yamaha, you set your volume as loud as you're going to listen to it. The loudness control should be full clockwise. Then, to retain the bass, you use the loudness control to turn down the volume by turning the control counter-clockwise. Most people don't understand but it's in the Yamaha's manual. I'm not sure if your Denon works exactly the same.
 
Funny bug in the schematic, btw (*): Seems like they forgot to include a trace between the phono stage output and the first/lowest position of the last layers of the phono selector switch (SW1-5/-6), so that according to the schematic MM regular/non-subsonic wouldn't work. But at least they were consequent enough to forget it on both channels. :biggrin:

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) Was curious, how the variable loudness has been implemented, so I had a look into the service manual (available over on HifiEngine).
 
No, it's not an EQ. While possibly not the best analogy I look at it a bit like biasing a transistor for a particular curve.

The Denon "Variable Loudness" control sounds a lot like what Realistic calls "Perfect Loudness" ("PL") circuit. The Realistic SA-2000 integrated amplifier has a PL circuit and I'm sure there are other models of their amps and receivers that do, as well.

It's easy to set. The instructions for the Realistic is to first turn the Perfect Level control down to the minimum. Then with a source playing turn the volume/loudness control up to about 80% (it's marked 'PL' the control at 80%).

The source is not likely going to be playing very loudly (or, maybe it will, that's the beauty of it). So, lastly, turn PL up until volume is the loudest you'd want to hear from that source. Ever. It's set! You can now forget it. And, you've set it for 80% volume so if you need that extra 'cush' to 100%, it's there.

Well... you can now forget it FOR THAT SOURCE, at least. If your sources are of significantly varying volumes (at least more than 3 dB IMO) you should have a Variable Loudness setting for each one.

If you're like me (and the Denon circuit is at least as effective as the Realistic SA-2000) once you get used to the circuit I think you're going to hear the drastic loudness compensation differences (or lack of them) in different amplifier designs.

The Yamaha CR-450 instruction above in post #7 appears to describe the same instructions. Rather than "flat" however, just substitute the word "minimum".
 
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Blast said:
It's easy to set. The instructions for the Realistic is to first turn the Perfect Level control down to the minimum. Then with a source playing turn the volume/loudness control up to about 80% (it's marked 'PL' the control at 80%).

The source is not likely going to be playing very loudly (or, maybe it will, that's the beauty of it). So, lastly, turn PL up until volume is the loudest you'd want to hear from that source. Ever. It's set! You can now forget it. And, you've set it for 80% volume so if you need that extra 'cush' to 100%, it's there.

Well... you can now forget it FOR THAT SOURCE, at least. If your sources are of significantly varying volumes (at least more than 3 dB IMO) you should have a Variable Loudness setting for each one.
Click to expand...

This is the approach I've settled on, thanks for getting back to me.

Having the knob set to flat made for a really aggressive fatiguing sound at higher levels .... sounded great really quiet though.
I have to imagine that if this was supposed to be constantly adjusted based off of your listening level that they wouldn't have hidden it behind a door.

I have it set at about 7 o'clock , flat is midnight, happy for now. Appreciate the input guys
 
To simplify your audio experience with the Denon PRA-1200, set the Loudness knob to a position you find neutral, mark it, and resist frequent adjustments. Modify the door if needed for easy access. Enjoy hassle-free listening!
 
Flat is off, no effect. As you turn it up bass and treble go higher, mids go lower. Many people, myself included, like this very much (if used with minimum effect). If you don't like it leave it on flat, it will have no effect and you will be hearing the amp as designed with no loudness effect.
 
Luxman had an interesting variable loudness circuit like that too. Duo-beta?

I never use it unless the volume is extremely quiet.
 
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