Vintage audio getting more expensive.
- Thread starter loweran
- Start date
You would be wrong!
I love my old crap and the way it sounds.
I just don't look at vintage with rose colored glasses that have blinders on them.
It's all about the music for me, the gear is secondary.
Moved to Dollars & Sense, because this is well beyond a discussion of Pioneer equipment.
Also, please refrain from the personal insults of "closed minded" and such, the thread's main topic is the cost of vintage audio gear, and not denigrating the beliefs of the fellow posters
Also, please refrain from the personal insults of "closed minded" and such, the thread's main topic is the cost of vintage audio gear, and not denigrating the beliefs of the fellow posters
Souleles
Member
Personal insults, perhaps you should read back a bit farther, I was the victim of personal insults, I was quoted more than once about a statement I made in a derogatory fashion to others, I don’t care to engage in a discussion with people that think there right and make remarks that are offensive and negativeMoved to Dollars & Sense, because this is well beyond a discussion of Pioneer equipment.
Also, please refrain from the personal insults of "closed minded" and such, the thread's main topic is the cost of vintage audio gear, and not denigrating the beliefs of the fellow posters
I don't push back against vintage gear. I push back on the mindset that you can't get as good for the same money new, that is just 
and a disservice to people new to the hobby that come here for advice.
With the price of vintage now, you can often get better for less $$ going new.
and a disservice to people new to the hobby that come here for advice.With the price of vintage now, you can often get better for less $$ going new.
Ahem, seems to me it takes two to tango. No disrespect but you have your “opinion and GChief has his. We all do. Let’s not attack one another for that. We are (at least I believe) all in it for the music. So please let’s respect each other’s opinions. We may learn something.
Today I am going to run some listening tests with some of my equipment. I’ll post my “opinion” later today.
Yeah that part you quoted actually applies to what I am "pushing" back against.
As Young46 so rightly stated, it truly does take two to tango, and my singling out of the "closed minded" comment was in no way intended to single out the poster of that comment, it was just a good handy example of language that should be avoided. I am asking EVERYONE posting here to apply a modicum of dignity and decency to their interactions, such that the conversation remains within the bounds of the AK rules. Sure, by all means disagree with someone else's opinion here, but do it in a way where you explain why you believe your view is valid without attacking the holder of the opposite view. Oftentimes, once the personal attacks start flying it all too quickly degenerates into a free for all, and I think we're better than that here
So now we are into a discussion on sound it seems. As we age (I’m almost 77) our hearing changes. How I would love for my hearing today to be as good as it was in my early years. But it isn’t so I, like a lot of others it seems, continue to search for that sound we had back then. That may not be everyone’s reason but it’s certainly mine. I rarely can afford to eat filet mignon but on rare occasions I do. Recently I had the good fortune of listening to a very nice system. McIntosh pre and main amps, hi end DAC, and Tannoy speakers. Did it sound good. To me a resounding yes. The system (don’t know the specific model numbers) would cost over $10K. And I realize that number is cheap to some but to me it represented a system I would never be able to have. It definitely would have ended my search for that “sound.” So I settle for what I can afford. So now it is a McIntosh MAC-4100, CD, player (HK, don’t know model #) ADS L-810 speakers. The MAC I paid $600 for. It wasn’t working but I repaired it. CD player was given to me and the speakers were $300. I’ve enjoyed a lot of music on this equipment. In my opinion it sounds very good. Oh yeah, I occasionally play my AT-LP120 too. Paid $35 for it with a bent tonearm. I repaired the tone arm (bought one on that auction site) and removed the pre-amp. It sounds good to me. So, not counting my labor my system (that I play the most) cost me a little over a grand. So enjoy what you have and if achievable, get better equipment. What ever it is. To me class doesn’t matter if it’s enjoyable to you. Enjoy the music!
jayvis
Addicted Member
Agree. Enjoy the highest level that you can comfortably afford. I guess instead of claiming something is the best, we all should instead say that it's the best for our situations at the time. That comes across much better and is actually more factual.
Quadman2
Lunatic Member
As some have already expressed, it comes down to supply and demand. Demand is strong at present.
Vinyl is still being sought after, with some of the younger-types wanting to come on board.
Music companies are weighing in for the case with re-masters, and the like, and doing quite well in sales.
"Over-there" (you know where!) audio manufacturers have bought-out past well known brands, "Quad, Wharfedale", to name a few, and big into the audio-gear market.
So, it's all a "hot" commodity market, with fixer-uppers in the mix as well, with the apex right now, but in time, like all other "want-to-get- items"...all will pass,
and wan.
Q
Vinyl is still being sought after, with some of the younger-types wanting to come on board.
Music companies are weighing in for the case with re-masters, and the like, and doing quite well in sales.
"Over-there" (you know where!) audio manufacturers have bought-out past well known brands, "Quad, Wharfedale", to name a few, and big into the audio-gear market.
So, it's all a "hot" commodity market, with fixer-uppers in the mix as well, with the apex right now, but in time, like all other "want-to-get- items"...all will pass,
and wan.
Q
Oh, the benefits of this hobby (addiction?) we have. A friend has no space at the moment for his ADS L-1090’s, and L-910’s, and Krell KRS-2 pre-amp. So I am storing them for him. I get to enjoy them! Same with equipment I’ve repaired. I get to enjoy it for a brief time.A system centered around a MAC4100 & a pair of ADS-810s needs no excuses. Rock on!
Souleles
Member
I was the one who was criticized and more comments about what I said were referred to other members , I didn’t start anything , I wouldn’t have been so rude to anyone , when you deal with some snobbish response it’s a morale buster and who would want to say anything more , I was enjoying reading and commenting but when you encounter this type of crap who needs it , read back and you’ll see , but when you talk to others members and refer to my statement I made in a sneaky fashion that’s messed up the,As Young46 so rightly stated, it truly does take two to tango, and my singling out of the "closed minded" comment was in no way intended to single out the poster of that comment, it was just a good handy example of language that should be avoided. I am asking EVERYONE posting here to apply a modicum of dignity and decency to their interactions, such that the conversation remains within the bounds of the AK rules. Sure, by all means disagree with someone else's opinion here, but do it in a way where you explain why you believe your view is valid without attacking the holder of the opposite view. Oftentimes, once the personal attacks start flying it all too quickly degenerates into a free for all, and I think we're better than that here
I feel that it’s about: Pleasant sounds, pleasant appearance, price/performance. The first two are highly subjective in that I like scalpel-sharp accuracy above pleasant harmonics and reflections, I like several types of faceplate between silver, black, and glass. The final point being price/performance is reliant partially on the other two. None of this matters to the next guy because he might like exposed tubes, gold faceplates, the smell of warm circuits, pleasant harmonics, echos in the room, ...
If you want the huge silver face of (for example) an SX-1980, I don’t see the price/performance ratio ever tipping in your favor as its value is as a collectible TOTL receiver for that marque for that era. OTOH my son prefers some of the higher-performance Pioneer Elite series for far less money, ...
If you like the symmetrical look and thumbwheel tuning of marantz, pretty much all of this gear has a very high price/performance ratio in the specification world, but if you are instead a fan of their “house sound” then they perform better than anything else, and look great. Sansui made some great looking gear, and if you like black faceplates IMO they made some of the best stuff, and the specs were pretty impressive also.
OTOH if you just want a great vintage sound and silver faceplate, other quality gear like Onkyo still don’t get the prices, but are stellar performers. It’s just that they aren’t as iconic, so many collectors will pass them by.
Speakers are even more skewed, the best example I can cite is the JBL L100 Century / L100A. Very highly collectible, iconic, there’s nothing else like them out there in many people’s memories and they command high prices for a simple 3-way bookshelf speaker that was purposely voiced as a monitor, not flat, and just doesn’t compare to anything from a spec standpoint to speakers you can buy for 1/3 of the price. But, they are sought after for their classic looks and sound. They are art.
Do you prefer abstract art or still-life? Scenes with horses or portraits? Classical music or country? It’s all art, and nobody has a prescription from a Physician to buy a stereo system, so we’re all buying what we enjoy, and it’s all different. Nobody has to agree with my choice and I don’t want to convince you that I’m smarter, have better hearing, better taste, anything else. Nor does anyone else have to convince me, all I really want to hear is that you enjoy owning, looking at, listening to, posting about, working on, whatever it is about your system and equipment that makes you want to own it.
It’s a great subject to discuss, vintage is climbing in many markets, and falling in others. Pocket-watches for example have fallen in value, I happen to love American Brilliant Period Cut Glass, ... its value continues to slip as the people who remember it are no longer collecting. What will a Picasso be worth in 10 years? Certainly I can buy a new print that has more stable ink for less.
My audio is worth nothing to me, unless it’s turned on and playing music, that is its value regardless of its age.
If you want the huge silver face of (for example) an SX-1980, I don’t see the price/performance ratio ever tipping in your favor as its value is as a collectible TOTL receiver for that marque for that era. OTOH my son prefers some of the higher-performance Pioneer Elite series for far less money, ...
If you like the symmetrical look and thumbwheel tuning of marantz, pretty much all of this gear has a very high price/performance ratio in the specification world, but if you are instead a fan of their “house sound” then they perform better than anything else, and look great. Sansui made some great looking gear, and if you like black faceplates IMO they made some of the best stuff, and the specs were pretty impressive also.
OTOH if you just want a great vintage sound and silver faceplate, other quality gear like Onkyo still don’t get the prices, but are stellar performers. It’s just that they aren’t as iconic, so many collectors will pass them by.
Speakers are even more skewed, the best example I can cite is the JBL L100 Century / L100A. Very highly collectible, iconic, there’s nothing else like them out there in many people’s memories and they command high prices for a simple 3-way bookshelf speaker that was purposely voiced as a monitor, not flat, and just doesn’t compare to anything from a spec standpoint to speakers you can buy for 1/3 of the price. But, they are sought after for their classic looks and sound. They are art.
Do you prefer abstract art or still-life? Scenes with horses or portraits? Classical music or country? It’s all art, and nobody has a prescription from a Physician to buy a stereo system, so we’re all buying what we enjoy, and it’s all different. Nobody has to agree with my choice and I don’t want to convince you that I’m smarter, have better hearing, better taste, anything else. Nor does anyone else have to convince me, all I really want to hear is that you enjoy owning, looking at, listening to, posting about, working on, whatever it is about your system and equipment that makes you want to own it.
It’s a great subject to discuss, vintage is climbing in many markets, and falling in others. Pocket-watches for example have fallen in value, I happen to love American Brilliant Period Cut Glass, ... its value continues to slip as the people who remember it are no longer collecting. What will a Picasso be worth in 10 years? Certainly I can buy a new print that has more stable ink for less.
My audio is worth nothing to me, unless it’s turned on and playing music, that is its value regardless of its age.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
There are many variables in the Dollar for dollar old vs new debate. Some are usually mentioned, while others such as the level being played at are routinely ignored.
If you can't imagine a scenario where new comes out on top and another scenario where old comes out on top, then you are inexperienced, blindly partisan or not really trying.
There is a PSA type advertisement often on the radio than grates on my nerves. In it, a young woman states that a study has proven classical lowers blood pressure. Really?
Is that really a good description of the results from a serious study or just a ridiculous cherry pick? Hearing this commercial raises my blood pressure.
If you can't imagine a scenario where new comes out on top and another scenario where old comes out on top, then you are inexperienced, blindly partisan or not really trying.
There is a PSA type advertisement often on the radio than grates on my nerves. In it, a young woman states that a study has proven classical lowers blood pressure. Really?
Is that really a good description of the results from a serious study or just a ridiculous cherry pick? Hearing this commercial raises my blood pressure.
adnick
Addicted Member
At some point engineering and design becomes indistinguishable from, and/or portrays itself as pure art.
Plus one must realize that the value of something like HiFi equipment isn’t just the purchase price, it’s the longterm value that sets it‘s true worth….Only time will tell, does it depreciate into oblivion, maintain or increase in perceived value and worth?
Perception is like Possession, it’s 9/10s of the law
Andy
Plus one must realize that the value of something like HiFi equipment isn’t just the purchase price, it’s the longterm value that sets it‘s true worth….Only time will tell, does it depreciate into oblivion, maintain or increase in perceived value and worth?
Perception is like Possession, it’s 9/10s of the law
Andy
infullview
Super Member
Prices are going up. No doubt in my mind. I purchased a Yamaha R-500 vintage 1980 about two years ago for about $20. I thought I had a great bargain but was disappointed when I looked it up on e-pay and there were dozens of them in running condition under $100 (some included shipping). Now when I look up this model, a broken one is well over $100 and one in good condition is now about $200. Also, all those systems sold complete with monkey coffin from the late 80s to mid 90s are approaching an average of $120.