Vintage Cartridge Hunting - Episode 1: A Grado Something or Other

[MCM_Fan]

My most successful way of accumulating vintage cartridges these days is to look for filthy/broken/junk turntables and harvest the cartridges from them. Such tables seem to be the only thing that show up at Goodwill or on craigslist fro less than $100 these days. I can often get the table running again, and usually put an inexpensive AT3600L cartridge on them and move them along as a gift to a friend/co-worker/family member, or to sell them inexpensively to strangers via craigslist. I'm not doing this to make money on the turntables, I'm doing this as a way to obtain and try as many different vintage cartridges as time and funds allow. I enjoy hearing how different cartridges and cartridge/stylus combinations sound. I'm often amazed and pleasantly surprised by the differences.

So, this is the first of two finds for today. I saw a couple ads from the same seller on my local craigslist late last night for a couple "junker" tables at $10 each. So, I contacted him first thing this morning and told him I wanted them both and could pick them up anytime at his convenience, cash in hand.

The first was a JVC JL-A40 - semi-automatic direct drive model from 1977. The description read: "It spins. No dust cover. Needs a stylus." From the photos, in addition to the missing dust cover, I could see it was also missing one of the control knobs and dusty as all get out, but what caught my eyes was the Grado cartridge. I've never owned, or even heard a Grado, but I've been wanting to give one try. I figured for 10 bucks, why not? Even if everything else is total trash, the headshell is probably worth at least that much.

Ok, I have no idea what Grado cartridge this is, or if it was original to the turntable. It looks like a Grado Black to me, but without the stylus, how can you tell? Was the Black around in 1977 when this turntable was made? Is this some older model Grado, or a Black (or similar) that was installed at a later date?

Here's some photos:

Can any of you Grado experts help me identify this bugger?

Now the real questions. Is it worth keeping and getting a stylus for it. It looks like the Grado Black (or possibly the Black 2) is the least expensive option at 50 bucks, but I've also read the many glowing reviews of the 8MZ stylus for $150. Is this cartridge compatible with, and worthy of, an 8MZ? Is it worth turning my $10 bargain into a $160 investment, or is my money better spent elsewhere?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[olddude55]

I had an 8MZ in a Prestige Gold several years ago, currently have a Black 2 that I use in an old Dual changer. If my sonic memory is correct, IMO the 8MZ isn't three times better than the Black 2's own stylus.

 

[MCM_Fan]

I had an 8MZ in a Prestige Gold several years ago, currently have a Black 2 that I use in an old Dual changer. If my sonic memory is correct, IMO the 8MZ isn't three times better than the Black 2's own stylus.

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell if the cartridge in the photos is a Grado Black? I suspect it is, but don't really know how to tell for sure.

I have a local dealer that sells Grado cartridges. So, I could pick up a Black 2 stylus from them for 50 bucks. I've read several reviews that claim the Black 2 is a significant improvement over the original Black. I'm not familiar enough (at all) with the Grado products to understand if the magic is in the cartridge body or the stylus. If this is an original Black body and I put a Black 2 stylus on it, is it more likely to sound like a Black or a Black 2, or maybe somewhere in between?

 

[bobins08]

I think if you posted the coil resistance readings for each channel you would be providing useful information on the quality of your cartridge.

Meanwhile I sent a bat signal to @marcmorin, a Grado affecianado.

On the right arm Grado cartridges sound very lush and musical.

 

[MoPho]

I have a 8MZ hooked up to a (80s?) GF3 - and it sounds great on most of my albums. Recently I've had some issues with sibilance, but for almost everything else it does the job. Never heard an Ortofon, but the Grado never sounds "clinical"- it makes me want to listen to records! I just rechecked my alignment and lowered the tone arm a bit. This is on a Technics SL-23 belt-driven table. Good luck!

 

[beatcomber]

If you remove the cartridge from the headshell, there should be a date code stamped on top. It might instead possibly be back by the pins. That will help you figure out what series it came from.

 

[MCM_Fan]

If you remove the cartridge from the headshell, there should be a date code stamped on top. It might instead possibly be back by the pins. That will help you figure out what series it came from.

Thanks for the tip! There is a F04 stamped in the plastic above the pins. Is this the date code you are referring to? If so, what does it tell me? Does that mean it was made in February of 2004?

 

[beatcomber]

Thanks for the tip! There is a F04 stamped in the plastic above the pins. Is this the date code you are referring to? If so, what does it tell me? Does that mean it was made in February of 2004?

June 2004.

 

[MCM_Fan]

June 2004.

Ok, that would seem to align with my expectation that it's most likely a Grado Black (or maybe a Green or Blue) body.

If I put a Black 2 stylus on it, will it sound like a Black or a Black 2? Is this body worthy of a $150 8MZ stylus? Will it sound significantly better with an 8MZ than it would with a Black 2 stylus?

 

[beatcomber]

Ok, that would seem to align with my expectation that it's most likely a Grado Black (or maybe a Green or Blue) body.

If I put a Black 2 stylus on it, will it sound like a Black or a Black 2? Is this body worthy of a $150 8MZ stylus? Will it sound significantly better with an 8MZ than it would with a Black 2 stylus?

Some have said that a Gold with a Gold stylus is inferior to a Black with an 8MZ stylus.

The internals of the new Black2 body are different from the earlier series, but I wouldn't expect that installing a new Black2 stylus will be an "upgrade."

IIRC, the bodies from that era with a "G" on the front are the basic model (Black, Blue, Silver) and the ones with "JG" are the premium models (Green Red, Gold).

 

[MCM_Fan]

Some have said that a Gold with a Gold stylus is inferior to a Black with an 8MZ stylus.

The internals of the new Black2 body are different from the earlier series, but I wouldn't expect that installing a new Black2 stylus will be an "upgrade."

The glowing reviews of the 8MZ have me intrigued and saving my pennies...

 

[beatcomber]

The glowing reviews of the 8MZ have me intrigued and saving my pennies...

Do you have previous experience with Grado carts? Some love them while others hate them. They are not compatible with all tonearms, and can sound lousy when they are not happy, but are glorious when properly mated.

My point is... if you are "Grado curious," I suggest buying a $50 Black2 stylus (or spend $75 and get a full Black2) and see how you like it. You can always upgrade to an 8MZ later.

 

[cafe latte]

Grado need a light arm or a damped one ie oil damped which extends the compliance. New Grado ie the 2 is amazing IMO and it has a lot more top end that older models miss. Also Grado 2 are neutral so if you ar yound or have good ears you will love them, but if your hearing is rolled off you will want something with more top end. I love the new Grado 2 they are like a good moving coil but better in some ways but if you want the accentuated highs of MC look elsewhere.
Chris

 

[marcmorin]

Grado need a light arm or a damped one ie oil damped which extends the compliance. New Grado ie the 2 is amazing IMO and it has a lot more top end that older models miss. Also Grado 2 are neutral so if you ar yound or have good ears you will love them, but if your hearing is rolled off you will want something with more top end. I love the new Grado 2 they are like a good moving coil but better in some ways but if you want the accentuated highs of MC look elsewhere.
Chris

if you want to accentuate the high end, and if your phono stage has adjustable input load, move it up to 60k -100K. it will get a bit brighter up top.

 

[olddude55]

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell if the cartridge in the photos is a Grado Black? I suspect it is, but don't really know how to tell for sure.

I have a local dealer that sells Grado cartridges. So, I could pick up a Black 2 stylus from them for 50 bucks. I've read several reviews that claim the Black 2 is a significant improvement over the original Black. I'm not familiar enough (at all) with the Grado products to understand if the magic is in the cartridge body or the stylus. If this is an original Black body and I put a Black 2 stylus on it, is it more likely to sound like a Black or a Black 2, or maybe somewhere in between?

I can't tell what Grado it is other than Prestige line, unfortunately. The only thing I can say for sure is it's not a Black 2. The Black 2 has the "JG" logo on the front of the cartridge.
If you put the Black 2 stylus on it, and it's the older Black or Black 1, then it'll probably sound like the older cartridges. IIRC there were some internal changes to the 2 series cartridges that made the difference in sound. You can search around here at AK, there's a good thread on the Black 2.

 

[marcmorin]

I can't tell what Grado it is other than Prestige line, unfortunately. The only thing I can say for sure is it's not a Black 2. The Black 2 has the "JG" logo on the front of the cartridge.
If you put the Black 2 stylus on it, and it's the older Black or Black 1, then it'll probably sound like the older cartridges. IIRC there were some internal changes to the 2 series cartridges that made the difference in sound. You can search around here at AK, there's a good thread on the Black 2.

don't go by the JG logo.........it can be found on any of the line from Black to Gold. the Silver and Gold model will have the gold coil cover, Black through Red with have the silver coil cover.

 

[MCM_Fan]

Do you have previous experience with Grado carts? Some love them while others hate them. They are not compatible with all tonearms, and can sound lousy when they are not happy, but are glorious when properly mated.

My point is... if you are "Grado curious," I suggest buying a $50 Black2 stylus (or spend $75 and get a full Black2) and see how you like it. You can always upgrade to an 8MZ later.

Definitely "Grado curious". I have never heard one. However, there is a local Grado dealer where I can probably demo a Black 2 (possibly even side-by-side with a Black, if they have any left in stock). If I like what I hear, I think my decision will come down to either buy a Black 2 for $75 or buy an 8MZ for my (apparently) Black body. I'm not curious enough to want both.

 

[MCM_Fan]

Grado need a light arm or a damped one ie oil damped which extends the compliance. New Grado ie the 2 is amazing IMO and it has a lot more top end that older models miss. Also Grado 2 are neutral so if you ar yound or have good ears you will love them, but if your hearing is rolled off you will want something with more top end. I love the new Grado 2 they are like a good moving coil but better in some ways but if you want the accentuated highs of MC look elsewhere.
Chris

Thanks, I have a couple tables with low mass arms (a Sony PS-X55S and a Realistic Lab 440). The Sony came with a Shure V15 Type 5MR (another cartridge that favor light arms) that was, unfortunately missing its stylus. So, it's currently sitting idle. It sounds like it would be a good match for a Grado.

 

[beatcomber]

Let me ask you this...

What kind of presentation do you prefer? Quick/detailed or full-bodied/romantic? If the latter appeals to you, you should enjoy the Grado sound.

 

[MCM_Fan]

Let me ask you this...

What kind of presentation do you prefer? Quick/detailed or full-bodied/romantic? If the latter appeals to you, you should enjoy the Grado sound.

This a very good question, and I'm not sure if I can answer it - yet. Until recently, most of my cartridges were vintage Shures with various NOS elliptical stylii. I certainly liked the sound, but wanted to try some different things, just to expand my universe and hear what else is out there. One of my fairly recent acquisitions was a Pickering XV-15 with a 625E stylus. I really like the sound of this cartridge. Excellent imaging and separation with a very full sounding bass and lower midrange. Like the Grados, the Pickering is a moving iron design.

So, I became curious how a Grado would sound compared to my vintages Shures and the Pickering. When I saw one show up nearby and cheap. I figured this was my chance.

However, I also picked up a second table/vintage cartridge from the same seller. That one is an Audio Technica AT132EP. I spent yesterday listening to many of my favorite albums with that cartridge. It definitely has more high frequency energy than the Pickering or my Shures. However, in spite of Audio Technica's reputation for brightness, I did not find it harsh, shrill or fatiguing in any way. The bass was also better than I was expecting. Again based solely on reputation. It's actually a lovely sounding cartridge. Very detailed and fast, with amazing separation. I'm liking it more than I expected to. I suspect it's actually the stylus that's the star of the show here. It has a tiny little nude 0.2 x 0.7 mil elliptical mounted on a tapered, anodized aluminum cantilever. The very low tip mass no doubt contributes to the fast, detailed sound of this cartridge/stylus.

Before I purchase anything more, I need to do a couple things. First, hook up a second table to I can do a proper A/B comparison between the Pickering and AT. Figure out which I prefer and why. Based on what I've heard, I expect to like them both,but for different reasons and perhaps on different recordings. I look forward to finding out which I prefer and why. That's the whole root of this journey - to hear different cartridge/stylus combinations.

Second,I want to set up a demo with my local Grado dealer to hear a Black 2. It won't be on my system, but I'm sure they will let me bring a few of my most favorite, most familiar albums to the audition.

My education is far from complete. It's an ongoing process and what makes this hobby so interesting and enjoyable. I find it fascinating to listen to familiar material and notice subtle differences in what I hear when changing speakers, amps and now cartridges/styli.