Vintage Quadraphonic: Pros and cons?

The big problem I found with Quadraphonic sound at the time was mixing that beat you over the head with:

THIS IS QUADRAPHONIC SOUND

To be sure there are some classical recording that are magical not so much they are 4 channel recordings but they are world class performances in their own right, and well mixed afterwards.

True that. Most pop quad stuff, it seemed like the engineer felt obliged to have stuff coming out of every speaker. With most classical, all you usually got from the rear channels was "hall sound" - which worked very well in creating a "sense of place". RCA quad 8 tracks were perfect examples of this. (Yeah, yeah...I know, 8 track...but still...)
 
I agree with the responses.
Quad are not good alternatives for modern HT.
Quadraphonic and 5.1 or 7.1 are different animals.

Just like when they were new, quadraphonoic needs extra things to setup. Speakers, a good TT and cart/stylus to do LPs. The LPs themselves. A 4 track tape system maybe with discrete quad recordings (I've never seen on of those). All that extra stuff is extra money.

I dabbled in it a little but I am not going to get serious about it.

What the quad units are good at is being cheaper than they should be and in stereo mode, they are every bit as good as their stereo cousins.

What they are bad at is being repaired. There is a LOT of extra stuff packed into those cases and some are a real pain to work on.

"Quadraphonic and 5.1 or 7.1 are different animals."

While the execution is different, SACD, Dolby surround, and all others of its ilk when used for music are the same concept as quadraphonic with the same inherent flaws. Few audiophiles or concert goers who listen to recordings when they can't attend concerts accept 5.1 as an suitable substitute. It's not more popular because the effect doesn't work very well.
 
I think dolby surround was invented from the same things as that Carver Holographic preamp.
It worked really good as long as you sit in the perfect spot and adjust the speakers just right. Listened to that Pink floyd the song when you hear the footsteps, man it went a complete 360, the guy (footstep sound) went all the way to the back of my head, and he walked all the way around to the other side then to the back.

But dolby is the SAME exact thing, all they are doing is messing with phase at different frequencies and-or time delays, and that is not reproducing the signal it is highly manipulated.

So for those that buy these $300 speaker wires, and patch cords to NOT mess up the signal is a waste if they want to hear the original signal.
but I suppose if it's setup right watching movies is the only good use for dolby.

I have always been biased against dolby, DBX is like a trillion times superior for tape hiss.
 
Quad is a beast unto it's own. When you get into the realm of digital music- 1 it is very sterile. 2 it is "precise" but at the same time sliced thinner than a cheapskate slices meat.

Dolby "A" has been around since late 1970/or 71. My Brother's Teac A250 cassette had Dolby "A", and at it's simplest description was an expansion and compression scheme. In fact ALL LP and 45's use dynamic compression in order to fit the music content into the grooves. RIAA equalization was the standard to "restore" the dynamic range. Anything after Dolby "C" is using digital processing. Dolby "C" was the ultimate noise reduction scheme for audio tape.

Even though the quad amps need some setup, you are still able to hear more content from the rear speakers than you will from any of the modern surround schemes without an encoded signal. So if most of your music is on vinyl or acetate- a "Modern" 5.x or 7.x or 20.x system is largely a waste of money and time.

Is there a lot of quad material? Not really. but that being said- Edison cylinders are still turning up for the Ediphones which are an example of the first analog recording. There is quad stuff out there. Was it recorded correctly initially? probably not. But there are enough quad fans out there that who knows? Maybe with the vinyl renaisance some people will strive to record quad correctly.

They are a novelty, as is the 3 piece "spatializer" system Kenwood had. So one really needs to look at them for what they are- a piece of history. Do they have the best sound specs for the era? Some did. I have a 1975 era Sanyo DCX3000 KA Quad, and it is a modest system, but has the prefered Sansui decoding circuit. It has a very unique look to it. And due to one minor accident, wound up with some new caps which perked it up for clarity. Will it blow the roof a house? No. But it was the economy approach to a true quad system. It has 4 true amplifiers. Is it the quietest stereo for noise? Maybe not, but someone with patience and desire could easily make it so.

If you like the look of the amp, and can afford it- buy it. Opinions are just that- opinions, and just like belly buttons- everyone was born with one.
 
I use a Harmon Kardon Quad below my table here for my computer setup, works very well. Since my audio out has front and rear (that does not work right, I need to buy a sound card, thanks to crap dolby butting in now which I disabled) but it a good use for a quad.

I had to call both front and rear stereo since my motherboard will NOT put out any rear signal at all unless I enable dolby. So I need a sound card or I think it will work with a sound card. Playing games on my old system I could immediately hear where things are, now I have to do this funky matrix.
 
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Been running quad here since the '70's and can't imagine another way to go. Turn it off, and it just thins right out.

Started running Sansui's QR series receivers (QR4500 and QR6500) and jumped when I got the chance to go vario matrix - the TOTL end all versions of quad. The QRX series do QS (Sansui's patented blend) as well as SQ and discrete. Throw in their "surround synth" and "hall synth" and you've got lots of options.

Most folk think you need to have four identical speakers perfectly placed at the four corners to get good quad, but that's just not true. I've always run two big boxes up front and wall hangers or bookshelf speakers for the back channels - long as those are capable of around 120hz or thereabouts, you're not missing anything.

I also have very little "real" quad recordings. The bulk of my collection is plain old stereo. I run most music on the SQ settings, and "hall" for orchestral, jazz, and other music that desires a more intimate environment. In any case, I don't try to push the rear channels as hard - if I can hear unique music back there, and it's adding depth, that's perfect. Best test is if you turn it off and the room goes flat, it's doing it's job.

** For anyone just getting into it, or for you old timers out there, I highly recommend keeping an eye out for a QRX series Sansui. The vario-matrix was and still is as good as quad got, and IMHO, better than most anything that's come down the pipe since.
 
I think there is no value in having old quad today. If you want surround sound get a GOOD modern receiver. Which means something above $1000. There were two sources of quad back in the day - discrete CD-4 and matrixed SQ or QS. If you get a matrixed record simy pass it through modern DPL decoder in AV receiver. It works almost exactly as (and often better than) old analog decoder in quad receiver. For CD-4, if you find vinyl with near mint condition with it, you have to build full ayback chain. But even then getting standalone CD-4 decoder and feed output to AVR will be a more reasonable solution. And don't forget that you can use AVR for movies and SACD playback too (where you need 5.1).
 
I have the sansui qrx-7001 and it sounds fantastic. If you do decide to do a recap there is around 197 electrolytics in that one and the 9001 has around 267 caps. They are fun to play with and cool as hell to look at. Give it a try only you will know if you like it
 
I think there is no value in having old quad today. If you want surround sound get a GOOD modern receiver. Which means something above $1000. There were two sources of quad back in the day - discrete CD-4 and matrixed SQ or QS. If you get a matrixed record simy pass it through modern DPL decoder in AV receiver. It works almost exactly as (and often better than) old analog decoder in quad receiver. For CD-4, if you find vinyl with near mint condition with it, you have to build full ayback chain. But even then getting standalone CD-4 decoder and feed output to AVR will be a more reasonable solution. And don't forget that you can use AVR for movies and SACD playback too (where you need 5.1).

I feed front and rear from my denon dvd 2900 to tape front and tape rear, hit the 4ch tape button. Perfect quad. If I want center, I feed the center signal to a baby marantz. SACD's and Movies are perfect and I have that big vintage sound. Since the denon sends discreet signals no decoding is needed. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I went the route of a high end denon avr. Gave it away and went back to the Pioneer quad. No comparison in sound.
 
I have a few quads.......Sansui QRX9001, Pioneer QX9900 and the Kenwood kr9940. They are excellent performers. But, I must say.....for me anyway....sound is secondary to the looks of these units. They are simply works of art.......lights, meters, knobs...really awesome looking units. When I have friends over...ALL get hypnotized by the looks!

You must be aware though....these are VERY touchy/complicated units.......if something goes wrong...maintenance is bitch! ENJOY!

This. Those old receivers have quite a few bits that can go wrong. Still, I love looking at my Akai in a dim room.
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Ditto with my Oppo SACD on the audio system ... I was happy enough just turning the center channel off on that till I stumbled across a Carver Cube that had one good channel ... that's currently splitting it's time between the center from the Oppo and an L+R output from a Carver H9-AV for everything else.

Not against AVRs as such ... I run a higher end Onkyo on the video system, and I've got a Teac and a Harmon Kardon keeping my good spare quads off the basement floor. <G>
 
Quadraphonics is NOT a novelty.

Doug

That is your opinion, and you seem to have misunderstood my point. For the detractors- that is all they will see in a quad system is the novelty of it. Would you buy a Predicta television set? Why? if the price right I would. But it is after all just a TV set from 1959/1960 One of the Sony ultra space age TV set/stereo matched set (the silver ball styling)? Why? Again if the price were rtight for me, I would; but it is after al,l just a stereo and TV set that had the same basic silver ball design. Those items mentioned, their popularity when new, and even now, often is clearly the novelty of them. The Predicta still suffered from some of the design shortcomings of the basic Philco design with the added complication of the cabling, but it is unique in spite of the NTSC signal format having been abandoned. Therefore it is a novel item.

Novelty is not to to be mistaken for the whimsey or cheapness those and many of the Kuba offerings exemplify whimsy over practicality. Quad was not whimsy, although some quads did have some whimsey in their designs.

The reall issue is the media that is currently available caters more to Prologic systems than to the old quad systems. The quad 4 track players (often disguised as 8 track players) were catering directly to the quad audience, but it was a format that was largely doomed due to the shortcomings of the tape cartridges tightening up. But they took full advantage of all 4 speakers, and no synthetic signals were needed because it was how the tape tracks were recorded.

From the standpoint of current technology- it is largely a novelty only because the decoding was largely abandoned/orphaned. This is not detracting from the quality of the amps themselves, and they do sound a bit better in synthesizing the rear channels from a 2 channel signal than a true "Prologic" surround does (with respect to the un-encoded 2 channel input). I have had both types of systems, and my nod goes to the older quad systems in fact because they do create a better spatial effect with the right music, and the right setup when it is just a 2channel signal.

But the point remains, the only quad encoded vinyl and tapes are what was produced initially, and not currently. And in that respect, it is like the old Ediphone- only the Ediphone is low fidelity today, and no one is producing new material on Ediphone cylinders- Although it would be humerous if a group like Metallica did release a few songs on wax cylinders. Which truly would be a novelty item.

Quad is only a novelty because it is an orphan format- nothing more, nothing less. And that should not be viewed as a negative comment on the technology, nor negative commentary- it is just an observation. Quad is not the ultimate in audio evolution by today's standards, but in it's day it was TOTL.
:banana::music::banana:

A couple months ago someone had posted a thread where the quad encoding systems were discussed at length with links to articles. It was a very informative thread.

A better example might be a Saturn car in the US. There is nothing wrong with the cars themselves in and of themselves, but over time there will be fewer of them and 60 years from now they will be as rare or rarer to see them in running condition than the "Kaiser Darren" would be today. And it is that rare status that makes them a novelty, and it was an innovative car too. Novelty does not indicate cheapness in any way- go see what the Darren is bringing these days at auctions.

And as for Ediphones- they are highly sought after and bring decent money, but compared to modern and even 50's vintage, or 30's vintage Hi Fidelity- the Ediphone has crappy audio reproduction.

Not to mention in my initial post- opinions are like belly buttons...Only I think you read something into the word "Novelty" that was not inferred nor intended. No offense taken, and none to be inferred- I just want to clear the air to avoid confusion :smoke:

After all- How many angels CAN dance upon the head of a pin anyway?
 
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I once was priveleged to attend a week long training seminar on audio and video and the audio guy was a true expert. I wish I would have taken notes. I didn't know or expect that sort of knowlege to show up.

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... You attended a week-long seminar and DIDN'T take notes because you didn't expect that sort of knowlege [sic] to show up? :wtf:

Just what sort of expectations did you have when you decided to dedicate a week of your professional life to a seminar like this? Whose money paid for your admission? Did you spend your own vacation time to attend or was it on the company's dime?

Sorry, but I just can't imagine attending a workshop or seminar like this and NOT taking notes. Then again, a legal pad or two and a Sharpie might put my luggage over the weight limit.

On to other things... Of course Dolby Pro Logic sounds weird. It's an attempt to use digital signal processing, aka DSP, to make a stereo recording sound like it was designed for a 5.1 (or more) channel system. There'll always be errors of some oddball sort or another as the system interpolates at least five channels of sound from a two-channel source on the fly.

I always liked what Jerry Harrison had to say about re-mixing the Talking Heads studio albums for surround sound, and I think what he had to say reflects the best approach to surround mixing: http://www.davidbyrne.com/music/cds/th_brick/press/harrison_apple.php

I think that one of the biggest errors people commit, though, when they assemble a surround sound setup, is failing to use matched speakers across the front. While it's ideal to used matched drivers in all locations, it's not nearly as critical to have drivers that match your front drivers in the surround positions. But introducing things like different levels of sensitivity or efficiency in your center channel, or using a center channel that's voiced differently (as an extreme example, using a horn-loaded speaker in the left and right positions and a non-horn-loaded speaker in the center) will produce a sonic mess.

While I tend to think that amps play a substantially smaller role in the overall quality of the sound you hear than the speakers do, even mis-matching your amplifiers across the front will have a deleterious effect on the sound (and if there are folks out there who believe that speaker cables can have a major impact on how a system sounds, then you pretty much have to believe that mismatched amplifiers will affect the system's sound).

The thing is, if you introduce disruptive hardware elements into your system, you're going to make it harder to suspend your disbelief. Would you put a Klipsch Heresy on the left side of your stereo and a KEF on the right? Would you use a tube amp to drive your left speaker in a stereo rig and a solid state amp to drive the right?

Of course not. But I see, in threads here on AK, and even in this thread, evidence that, when it comes to surround systems, that's exactly what people do. I don't have enough amps or speakers to match things up across the front, so I'll just try this other speaker or amp.

And then folks act like it's the format's fault when their system sounds like dogmeat.

Why would anyone expect anything less than less-than-optimal results if they mismatched their components across the front of a surround sound system?
 
I've got a Marantz 4400 that I've become quite fond of and not just because I like Marantz. I actually avoided the quad Marantz receivers for the longest time until I came across a 4400 for sale for $100 that I couldn't help but bring it home.

Best sounding Marantz receiver I've heard to date. :yes:
 
I don't think it would take the place of a modern HT system.

I'll second this. Have had several Sansui quads in my rotation. They play stereo beautifully- albeit with a touch less power (most likely) than a dedicated 2-channel Sansui would normally provide.
 
The quad 4 track players (often disguised as 8 track players)...

??? They weren't disguised as anything. They were still 8 track players; however, they were 4 channel players, as opposed to 2 channel.

On to other things... Of course Dolby Pro Logic sounds weird. It's an attempt to use digital signal processing, aka DSP, to make a stereo recording sound like it was designed for a 5.1 (or more) channel system. There'll always be errors of some oddball sort or another as the system interpolates at least five channels of sound from a two-channel source on the fly.

Just to set the record straight...

Dolby Pro Logic (AKA Dolby Surround) is not digital, nor does it use any sort of DSP. It's a purely analog system for extracting out-of-phase material from a two channel source. It was around way before DSP was thought of.

Dolby Digital, OTOH, is a completely different story...and does, of course, rely on DSP.
 
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Thanks this cleared a little of the fog for me surrounding quad receivers

It's added fog for me and I've been playing with quad for forever. <G>

Fortunately, the fog hasn't negatively impacted my appreciation of the format at all.

Wanna have some real fun ... go sexophonic ... I run two sets of speakers off the rear channel amps on my Sansui QRX and into a Dynaco Quadraptor. That uses a Hafler circuit to re-phase one pair. Those are set directly overhead and just behind the big comfy chair, while the standard quad rears are around mid height and 10 feet back. The Dynaco allows me to adjust the level of the overheads. Set properly, I get a real nice blend, and incredible depth of field. Also, both rear speaker sets are Bose, and we all know how they love to play with dispersion patterns. Pure dumb luck and a lot of experimentation to achieve what I feel is a very dynamic and enjoyable listening experience.

Short version ... the setup recommendations you'll see are really only starting points. Like any other audio gear, what actually works best for you depends on the media, the environment, and the listener.
 
None of them ever had enough power in pure stereo mode.

True dat ... although 90wpc out of a QRX9001 is enough to satisfy most, I also give it a bit of a boost on the front channels ...

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