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Vinyl distortion issue: Getz/Gilberto featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim

Athalwolf

Athalwolf

Addicted Member
First play last evening for: Getz/Gilberto featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim
Analogue Productions V6 - 8545 B0015625-01
2X45RPM 200g 2011 https://www.discogs.com/Stan-Getz-João-Gilberto-Featuring-Antonio-Carlos-Jobim-Getz-Gilberto/release/11129763 AP states that only 1000 albums are pressed per stamper.

In the song Pra Machucar Meu Coracao there is noticeable distortion when Getz is playing sax. I have another copy of the album from Verve 2014 https://www.discogs.com/Stan-Getz-J...io-Carlos-Jobim-Getz-Gilberto/release/6264316 so I put it on and there is the same distortion but not as prominent.
Initially I thought the azimuth is off but I double checked it with a Fozgometer and it is dead on.

So I'm thinking that it is not my table but somehow in the recording? How could that be possible as the Analogue Production release is taken from the original master tapes? This is a well known album so if it is, I cant be the only one with the issue. Can't find anything via Google to answer my question.
 
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I checked my mp3 (amazon DL) and a 24/96 FLAC rip of the MFSL 1-208 half speed remaster.
Very interesting - the mp3 definitely has it, most noticeable on the higher notes, but the MFSL rip has much less.
Part of it may be the sax itself - almost sounds like it was getting a bit soupy inside, and of course the breathey way he plays.
I wonder how many times his most popular LPs have been 'remastered' over the years....
 
nedseg said:
I checked my mp3 (amazon DL) and a 24/96 FLAC rip of the MFSL 1-208 half speed remaster.
Very interesting - the mp3 definitely has it, most noticeable on the higher notes, but the MFSL rip has much less.
Part of it may be the sax itself - almost sounds like it was getting a bit soupy inside, and of course the breathey way he plays.
I wonder how many times his most popular LPs have been 'remastered' over the years....
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to help me nedseg. Over and above the call of duty. As side note last week I was selling my old speakers to a friend that came by. We hooked them up for a test and I chose a Jazz album from some newly acquired ones. I wasn't familiar with it and at the beginning was purposely distorted saxophone. My pal looks at me and says, " No thanks they sound like ****". Anyway I remembered that it was in the album and after a few more he bought the speakers.
 
Most welcome! That is one of my favorite LPs from HS ('70) - was my 'go to' "date" music!
That and Jazz Samba w/Charlie Byrd....listening now....
I had several versions of the LP, but the entire 1000+ LP collection was stolen by an ex-gf years back:) so now almost all digital!
Update: just noticed I have another CD rip from a 1989 Verve 4cd collection re-master - this one sounds the best of the three I have....
back-1.jpg
 
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Same here. Mostly hear the breathey parts in the quiet sections. It goes away when he blows hard. I think it's just Stan's technique. The loud parts are not distorted for sure. Very pure.
 
Just have a second and wanted to say that after listening to the track again bearing in mind the information posted above, I concur and am grateful as always for the help and knowledge provided. Thanks very much everyone:)
 
Decided to try my Verve 7-1/2ips reel to reel tape: same thing.
Seems like maybe it's recorded a little "hot"?
Anyway, gave me a chance to listen to and old favorite, enjoying it.
Regards,
Jim
 
onepixel said:
The mic was to close in the original recording. The hissy and breathy sound is normal with the sax.
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t the mic be down at the bell of the sax? Does the musicians breathing sound travel through a sax to be audible through the bell?

OBMG74 said:
Decided to try my Verve 7-1/2ips reel to reel tape: same thing.
Seems like maybe it's recorded a little "hot"?
Anyway, gave me a chance to listen to and old favorite, enjoying it.
Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

Jim does hot mean close? Please elaborate.
 
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1823D4B4-38D9-4B8E-8721-A2CC51184C82.jpeg

I have an old Verve vinyl pressing of this classic. What you are hearing is a great recording. The mike placement must have been very close to his mouth. He was not blowing all his air into the sax reed, to get a breathy sound and maybe some type of harmonic (if possible). It really is a technique he used often, especially in his Bosa Nova recordings.
 
Athalwolf said:
Wouldn’t the mic be down at the bell of the sax? Does the musicians breathing sound travel through a sax to be audible through the bell?

Jim does hot mean close? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

You wouldn’t generally mic a sax at the bell. I know that happens live a lot, especially with wireless mics, but you get a fuller sound if you aim at the fingers. Or perhaps elsewhere if you’ve got a reason to as suggested above.

A hot signal is, to put it simply, a loud one. The louder the signal, the greater the chance it distorts. It could be a close mic, a lot of gain, or a high signal going to the tape.

As an example, putting down a hot signal was a recording technique with analog tape. If you pushed it in a particular way, it would not only minimize tape noise, but it would also distort in a pleasing way. But you run the risk of distortion that you don’t want.
 
OBMG74 said:
Decided to try my Verve 7-1/2ips reel to reel tape: same thing.
Seems like maybe it's recorded a little "hot"?
Anyway, gave me a chance to listen to and old favorite, enjoying it.
Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

Stan's sax is close microphoned, and it's recorded somewhat "Hot" which was done to get the best signal/noise ratios before Dolby A came on the market. Typical professional habits in that era.
 
Athalwolf said:
Wouldn’t the mic be down at the bell of the sax? Does the musicians breathing sound travel through a sax to be audible through the bell?

Jim does hot mean close? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

If you listen to other recordings from Stan Getz, the breathing isn't as pronounced. The mic is usually down at the bell and some breathing does come out of it. How much breathing is captured depends on the placement of the mic.

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, you can hear his breath.
Couple of Diana Krall albums, I can hear the moisture in her mouth.
 
Athalwolf said:
First play last evening for: Getz/Gilberto featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim
Analogue Productions V6 - 8545 B0015625-01
2X45RPM 200g 2011 https://www.discogs.com/Stan-Getz-João-Gilberto-Featuring-Antonio-Carlos-Jobim-Getz-Gilberto/release/11129763 AP states that only 1000 albums are pressed per stamper.

In the song Pra Machucar Meu Coracao there is noticeable distortion when Getz is playing sax. I have another copy of the album from Verve 2014 https://www.discogs.com/Stan-Getz-J...io-Carlos-Jobim-Getz-Gilberto/release/6264316 so I put it on and there is the same distortion but not as prominent.
Initially I thought the azimuth is off but I double checked it with a Fozgometer and it is dead on.

So I'm thinking that it is not my table but somehow in the recording? How could that be possible as the Analogue Production release is taken from the original master tapes? This is a well known album so if it is, I cant be the only one with the issue. Can't find anything via Google to answer my question.
Click to expand...

I have the same Analogue 45RPM album, and it has the same distortion. I'm certain it's just part of the original recording.

I contacted Analogue shortly after receiving to ask about another anomaly - Girl from Ipanema has an audible bump/skip/something in the sax at around 3:08+. They assured me that if it appears on the our record, it appeared in the original master, since it was taken directly from with no alteration. In defense of that argument, it's even audible on the digital version included on Amazon Music, which even if it came from a different pressing, it probably still had the original master somewhere in its history.

Trivia: The original master has Astrud singing mostly from the left channel, whereas some subsequent releases got the master reversed, and she ended up on the right channel instead - ours, she's on the left, Amazon's, she's on the right.


EDITED TO ADD: I'm listening to Pra Machucar Meu Coracao now on Amazon, and it sounds just as scratchy/breathy
 
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I just listened to it on Qobuz HiRes 24/192 and it is an incredible recording, you hear every breath and can see the spit coming off his lips as he blows lol , no but seriously it’s just a close recording like others have mentioned and a darn good recording that a revealing system will bring out all the imperfections that go along with it .

Audiofreak71
 
reydelaplaya said:
I have the same Analogue 45RPM album, and it has the same distortion. I'm certain it's just part of the original recording.

I contacted Analogue shortly after receiving to ask about another anomaly - Girl from Ipanema has an audible bump/skip/something in the sax at around 3:08+. They assured me that if it appears on the our record, it appeared in the original master, since it was taken directly from with no alteration. In defense of that argument, it's even audible on the digital version included on Amazon Music, which even if it came from a different pressing, it probably still had the original master somewhere in its history.

Trivia: The original master has Astrud singing mostly from the left channel, whereas some subsequent releases got the master reversed, and she ended up on the right channel instead - ours, she's on the left, Amazon's, she's on the right.


EDITED TO ADD: I'm listening to Pra Machucar Meu Coracao now on Amazon, and it sounds just as scratchy/breathy
Click to expand...

That glitch is an old tape edit done when this master reel was brand new. It's an old glitchy tape edit. Been on even 1963 original Verve Stereo LP discs, and the Ampex/Verve 4 track Stereo open reel tape. Just to let you know. Not tape damage from later on.
 
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