Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
They'll love it when new releases start coming out on shellac!
Vinyl, It looks better, it sounds better.
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They'll love it when new releases start coming out on shellac!
And also, the kids I meet haven't forgotten that its about the enjoyment of the music. Last I checked, you can play a record on a Fisher Price turntable and dance around the room and have a great time.
I'm SURE that all of you older guys had the excellent turntables you brag about now when you were kids. Right?
JonL
Lunatic Member
Isn't that exactly what happened when CDs came out? Before that, everyone had a "record player," few had really good ones. Everyone had a stack of records that they hauled around with them from home to college to their first, second, third apartments and houses... few took good care of them. When CDs came out, most people ditched their records, but many of the people who had good tables and cared for their records held on. Now some older people are returning to the fold realizing what they've been missing. Young people are experiencing it for the first time. Many (most?) will go through the cycle with poor equipment and poorly cared for LPs and ditch them, but some will stick with it, just like before. Hopefully there will be enough young folks who stick with it to replace us old farts as we fade away, thus perpetuating the medium, at least at some modest level of sustainability.
Thinking about this thread more, the tone of some of the responses really just flat out pisses me off. The arrogance and complete lack of respect for a whole generation of people who are just trying to enjoy music boggles my mind.
We have threads here bitching about kids because "all they do is listen to iPods and MP3s". We have threads here bitching about kids because "they all listen to crap like Lady GaGa". And now we have a thread where an increasing number of people are complaining about kids because "they're only into vinyl because it's a cool fad".
Well, which is it? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The kids into indie music saved the ****ing format. It certainly wasn't audiophiles buying the same ****ing Diana Krall LP over and over. Their passion for a variety of obscure music keeps the record pressing plants in business. Look them up. Some of them were restarted by younger people with a passion for vinyl. These younger people are displaying nothing but a passion for music and so for that they get mocked?
Maybe they're just like a bunch of other people who see everything becoming digitized and intangible, and they love the music and want to physically interact with it. Maybe the pops and cracks remind them that this is something they can hold. It's not a file. Maybe they can get into the music despite the fact that they don't have the best turntable. I remember my best friend in high school had a fisher price turntable, and he had every bit the same passion as any of you in collecting records. He loved the music. He loved the format.
Every day I'm confronted on this site with a thread that makes me want to walk away and do something more worthwhile than argue with a bunch of guys that seem to have nothing better to do than sit around and talk about how superior they are to every other person and generation on the planet because they have chosen to enjoy something obscure in one specific way, and anybody else who chooses to enjoy this same obscure passion- that should be fun- it in a way that is ANY different is an idiot.
Get off your high horses and spend some time with the kids. You might find that they know a hell of a lot about new music, and what it was like to be truly passionate about the music, instead of the equipment they play it on.
So they don't all have a....Dual? Where's the cut off where budget doesn't matter? Go out and buy an SME deck if you're only allowed to listen to vinyl at the best fidelity. Until then, be really happy that these kids have kept the format alive.
We have threads here bitching about kids because "all they do is listen to iPods and MP3s". We have threads here bitching about kids because "they all listen to crap like Lady GaGa". And now we have a thread where an increasing number of people are complaining about kids because "they're only into vinyl because it's a cool fad".
Well, which is it? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The kids into indie music saved the ****ing format. It certainly wasn't audiophiles buying the same ****ing Diana Krall LP over and over. Their passion for a variety of obscure music keeps the record pressing plants in business. Look them up. Some of them were restarted by younger people with a passion for vinyl. These younger people are displaying nothing but a passion for music and so for that they get mocked?
Maybe they're just like a bunch of other people who see everything becoming digitized and intangible, and they love the music and want to physically interact with it. Maybe the pops and cracks remind them that this is something they can hold. It's not a file. Maybe they can get into the music despite the fact that they don't have the best turntable. I remember my best friend in high school had a fisher price turntable, and he had every bit the same passion as any of you in collecting records. He loved the music. He loved the format.
Every day I'm confronted on this site with a thread that makes me want to walk away and do something more worthwhile than argue with a bunch of guys that seem to have nothing better to do than sit around and talk about how superior they are to every other person and generation on the planet because they have chosen to enjoy something obscure in one specific way, and anybody else who chooses to enjoy this same obscure passion- that should be fun- it in a way that is ANY different is an idiot.
Get off your high horses and spend some time with the kids. You might find that they know a hell of a lot about new music, and what it was like to be truly passionate about the music, instead of the equipment they play it on.
So they don't all have a....Dual? Where's the cut off where budget doesn't matter? Go out and buy an SME deck if you're only allowed to listen to vinyl at the best fidelity. Until then, be really happy that these kids have kept the format alive.
I know this wasn't the thrust of your post, but I'd like to hear more about it. I took a chance on a digitally remastered DG LP when my analog copy started to wear thin. I was surprised that it sounded "lossless", i.e. just as good to my ears as the original. Maybe it was because it's classical and no re-mix urges came into play.:scratch2:
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Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
I was intrigued by the promise of higher digital resolution on LP pressings. But have found most new LPs simply sound like the standard red book version.
I'm thinking specifically of Lady Gaga, Songs:Ohia-Magnolia Electric Company, Band of Horses, Wolf Parade and Amy Winehouse all off the top of my head.
Its harder to tell with the recent Leonard Cohen LPs (Ten New Songs and the two latest live ones to come out on LP).
I do think that Will Oldham/Bonnie Prince Billy LPs are higher res, than goodness.
Anyway, point is, I've gotten discouraged and now find myself assuming that any new LP I'm considering is likely to just be a redbook recording pressed in often low-quality vinyl.
And as for my possible disparraging comments about kids liking the surface noise of vinyl, that's not a generation thing. I think it'd be silly for anyone to like surface noise. i don't care who you are. But t'weech hizown.
That fits my daughter and her friends to a tee. I was so grateful when she asked for a turntable and a small system to run it with. Her tastes are more eclectic than mine, used records of any style are a whole new world to be discovered!
Scuzzer
Fixed Bias
+1, nicely stated. I hated it when the Beatles generation looked down on my music and called it trash because it wasn't the Fab Four. I heard the same "music today sucks" and "you should have been there" type crap as early as the late 70s.
Constant complaining about "those damned kids today" has been going on since time immemorial.
Scuzzer
Fixed Bias
It works both ways though. When I was a kid I can remember my grandmother putting on a some big band record and saying "now this is good music". Since I was a typical kid I would just roll my eyes and think she was nuts. Now I'm actively searching for old big band 78s. Maybe she wasn't nuts after all.
Alex Hayes
Active Member
I used to think anything new sucked too, thankfully I got over that at a young age and realized that there is a ton of great new music as well as a ton of great old music. I'm young, but I enjoy a very broad range of music styles. I grew up listening to old music and loved it as I still do, but I have also been introduced to new music that I really enjoy, I don't look at age of music so much anymore, I just listen and let my ears decide.
Echoes Myron
Active Member
+1000
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
It's too easy to judge and generalize about genre and era of music. I'm also sometimes guilty of it as well by making broad statements of bad music these days when I'm really referring to "idol boy/girl" groups or individuals with too much hype and not enough talent. While rap/hip-hop is not my favorite genre of music, I do own and like certain albums and songs by Nas, Missy Elliot, NWA, Tupac, etc...
IMO, while mainstream pop/rock has been lacking in recent times compared to the past, there are more than enough great jazz and classical releases in recent years to have kept me busy.
IMO, while mainstream pop/rock has been lacking in recent times compared to the past, there are more than enough great jazz and classical releases in recent years to have kept me busy.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
Sounds like a joke to me.
Sounds tongue in cheek, and not as if he really considers his own generation to be terrible, and even if he does, it's his generation.
Kids these days and their retro tastes ... garumph!
Variation on the same joke, this time accompanied by a smileyface to remove any doubt.
Again, a joke.
Comment about the perceived relative value of analog vs digital. Admittedly, your comment about the difference between Redbook and digital masters was a good and pertinent point.
When I read this, I thought I must have really missed some snarky comments, so I went back and reread to see what I had overlooked. Unless something has been edited out before I reread, I just don't see what what has pissed you off.
I quoted a couple of comments that might seem snarky, but I really don't think they were intended that way, nor do I believe that most would take them that way.
About my own post, I can only say that I reviewed it with a biased eye, because I know what I meant to say and I believe I communicated my meaning fairly well. Just in case I am missing something that is obvious to others, I apologize. I absolutely was not trying to convey a lack of respect for a whole generation of people. I also wasn't trying to be arrogant. If I come off that way, please tell me so I can try to improve myself. I'll gladly do the same for you.
I'm wasn't mocking the kids. I was explaining why I believe that the current popularity of records among kids is a fad. I base my opinion partially upon observation, and partially upon anecdotal information obtained from someone I trust, who is in a position observe a lot more of this particular phenomenon than most of us.
I don't believe that Duals are the end-all be-all turntables. I do believe that a nice Dual with a decent cartridge is worth more than $30 more than the crappiest plastic 1995 Sony with the lowest end cartridge available. In a place where some don't blink at spending upwards of $1000 for an ounce of better resolution, I'm surprised at being derided for suggesting that quarts of better resolution are worth $30.
There is no cut-off where budget doesn't matter, but these kids didn't scrimp and save to pay $60 for the Sony, they just made a spot decision to purchase something for which they weren't even in the market ten minutes previously, and reached into their pockets.
When I say it needs to be about the sound for the format to survive, I mean that if it is a fad, it will pass. If it were all about the music, there are other formats available. I think it unlikely that any new music is being made available only on records.
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Vintage_Hi-F
Vintage Audio Geek
Thanks for generalizing, cause my generation is the first to get into vinyl and not spend money on good equipment.
Vintage_Hi-F
Vintage Audio Geek
True but music isn't exclusive to CD's anymore either what with the availability of digital downloads. Would that mean that anyone buying them is doing it for a novelty. I'll admit there is a bit of a novelty to vinyl, but saying that the only reason people do so is because "it's hip and cool" is a very large generalization. I was buying used vinyl when I was 10, that was in 1998.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
In this case, I am not generalizing, but am referring to a specific incident.
Your generation is among the first to "get into vinyl". My generation didn't have much choice, if you were into listening to your choice of music at home, vinyl was the medium. But, at a time when $30 represented ten hours of slaving at McDonald's instead of the current four hours, not one of my friends would have failed to spend the extra $30 if it meant sound that was more than twice as good.
I stand by my comments in post 28. Records that are scratched and dirty and played on very inferior equipment don't sound as good as digital formats. If it sounds much worse, why bother?
If it is the "cool factor", fine, but that is a fluid thing. If it weren't, then we would all be wearing bell bottoms, which have been cool twice in my lifetime. Cool won't keep the format alive for long.
I'm not slagging you for not spending more than you comfortably can on gear. I'm saying that sound quality is the only lasting salvation of a format that is inconvenient in so many ways.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
Interestingly, several stores local to me have quit carrying cds.
You can't honestly think of yourself as typical. The typical person is the one whose numbers and buying power inspire manufacturers. You are part of a niche market, which I believe will shrink as the cool factor wears off. It doesn't need to shrink to nothing for manufacturers to give up on it. It just needs to shrink below acceptable projected profit percentages.
Don't be mislead by my use of the word you, I'm a record buyer too.
Vintage_Hi-F
Vintage Audio Geek
Well I wouldn't go that far in the 70's you could have R2R, Cassette, 8-Track, or vinyl that's quite a few choices actually, so you could have pretty much "got into" what ever the hell you pleased. Some like R2R, Cassette, and Vinyl could sound amazing on a good setup while 8-track well was 8-track.
The "We had to work twice as hard to make 30 bucks back than" also doesn't really mean anything cause not only have wages risen so has inflation so while that $700 Sansui Receiver and $300 Pioneer table did take months of scrimping and saving they are not equivalent to some $100 no name HT in a box and a $60 Sony from best buy. Plus I seem to remember seeing quite a bit of crappy all in one consoles for the 70's at the S.A. on my last visit, so unless they were made out of spare parts by S.A. employees than I'd say you're generation also had the choice of buying some real cheap crap. Which by the looks of how many time you see those as apposed to the $700 Sansui, I'd say they did the same thing you're saying my generation does.
I also don't remember reading anything about anyone saying a beat to hell record played on a dime store turntable with a nail is going to sound like heaven. If you want to believe that every young person out there listens to a beat up dirty copy of pink floyds the wall on a cheap Ion turntable than so be it. But I'm gonna go listen to some Yes on my Sansui SR-717 and 9090DB.
Vintage_Hi-F
Vintage Audio Geek
Never said I was the norm but than again we have never been the norm (people that really care about audio quality).