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Vinyl Sales Surpass CD Sales For The First Time Since 1986

32231P said:
Digital will never really sound like analog simply because it is missing so much information. You can't put back something that was never there. Even though the people building and selling some of these converters will tell you that it's possible. It's like "simulated stereo" was back in the day.
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Generation loss is an analog phenomenon. From recording to mixing to mastering to manufacturing, the more stages in the analog domain, the more lossy it is.
 
we have a store that specializes in current and collectable LP's. They are doing the same thing now with CD's. They carry both new and pre-owned that are quite popular and do a brisk business. The cheapest pre-owned CD are about 9.00 dollars. They have some one that buffs ought all the scratches and then checks the CD's out before they are re-sold. I wish you could do that with an LP. I have even take them some pre-owed CDE's I have gotten in other places and they buff them out for me for a small fee. The owner and I have known each other for close to 55 years and thats why he cuts me some slack..
 
twiiii said:
Why doesn't some one make a DAC that adds what ever is necessary to make digital sound more like analog.
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This could be done, but then it would not test well, and someone would poo all over it.

Run a tube amp, (or McIntosh SS) and it takes the edge off CDs.
 
32231P said:
Umm, what I was referring to is the loss of information when an audio waveform is digitally sampled and you only get fractions of the original - in other words you're not getting ALL of the waveform. In analog you get the whole thing. I know I know the common belief is you are getting enough to reconstruct the waveform with digital good enough for most people's ability to hear - but you're not getting the whole thing. And some of us can tell the difference regardless of what anyone else claims. And ultrasonic content is important. The idea that human hearing drops off sharply at 20Khz. is just ridiculous.
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There's no information lost below 1/2 the sampling rate. I also agree that it's ridiculous to assert that human hearing drops off sharply at 20kHz, but I'm not aware of anyone who does so. In fact, human hearing starts rolling off much lower. 20kHz is just near the extreme end of human hearing with young, sharp ears. While some analog hifi equipment can reach well beyond human audibility, the effects of generation loss and the limits of recording equipment (analog in particular) render that capability pointless, even if you could hear it. If you are truly concerned about extended frequency response, you'll have better luck with pure digital recordings at higher sampling rates.
 
32231P said:
Umm, what I was referring to is the loss of information when an audio waveform is digitally sampled and you only get fractions of the original - in other words you're not getting ALL of the waveform. In analog you get the whole thing. I know I know the common belief is you are getting enough to reconstruct the waveform with digital good enough for most people's ability to hear - but you're not getting the whole thing.
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I hope you're not referring to the debunked "stairsteps" myth. The reason why the filter on the output of a DAC is called a reconstruction filter is because it reconstructs the waveform exactly as it was before it was converted to digital:

And some of us can tell the difference regardless of what anyone else claims. And ultrasonic content is important. The idea that human hearing drops off sharply at 20Khz. is just ridiculous.
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If you're an adult male, you probably can't hear much above 15 kHz, let alone 20 kHz. Try turning on an old CRT television. Can you still hear the flyback whine? If not, then that means you're not hearing anything above 15.7 kHz.

And regardless, many vinyl records are mastered with lowpass filtering around 16 kHz, to keep high-frequency sounds from causing mistracking and splattering on turntables with a conical stylus.
 
vwestlife said:
I hope you're not referring to the debunked "stairsteps" myth. The reason why the filter on the output of a DAC is called a reconstruction filter is because it reconstructs the waveform exactly as it was before it was converted to digital:


If you're an adult male, you probably can't hear much above 15 kHz, let alone 20 kHz. Try turning on an old CRT television. Can you still hear the flyback whine? If not, then that means you're not hearing anything above 15.7 kHz.

And regardless, many vinyl records are mastered with lowpass filtering around 16 kHz, to keep high-frequency sounds from causing mistracking and splattering on turntables with a conical stylus.
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I'm with you... I'm not quite as expert in the technical stuff as some folks here, but I've done plenty of reading into this stuff and I feel like I at least understand the basics. Though there are lots of variables, it seems to me that on very good equipment if it were possible to eliminate factors like mastering and bass rumble from turntables that color the sound then it should be pretty hard to much of a difference between analog and digital. I've read somewhere that when high sample rate dubs of analog master tapes have been made that they sound so similar that even experts can't name which is which. This seems like the purest kind of test too, which eliminates so many other variables.

I actually do like collecting old records and prefer them to my CDs. Both sound very good to my on my system though and the preference doesn't have to do with sound quality, but more that I like LPs as artifacts more than CDs... I have more of an emotional attachment to them. Hypothetically though, if I were to have the opportunity to swap my system for something really amazing but that played did digital stuff, I'd do it and I'm sure that I'd be loving the sound and never spending a minute thinking, "does this sound as warm as my old LPs on my old mid-fi system?"
 
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There are some fantastic deals lately on compilation CD's. I've picked up a handful of complete discographies and anthologies for under $15 that would be nearly impossible to collect on vinyl. Especially old blues artists. Most of us love having the vinyl record in our hands, but when you can get a double CD with over 30 songs for about the same money as a used 45 it's tough to justify unless you are an investor.
I have yet to pay for a music file. There's plenty of new music to stream for free on Bandcamp, and if you really like it you can buy the record.
 
32231P said:
On second thought I can see clearly now that signing up for this forum was probably a mistake. You guys are absolutely convinced that digital is so superior in every way and that there's no way human ears can tell a difference and analog is just crap. Too bad. So I'm outta here. I'll go back to the old folks home now. Have a nice forum boys.
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

BTW, no one suggested analog is crap. Many of us love it. And many don't like digital. And many like both.
 
32231P said:
Look just because YOU are unable to tell the difference only means that YOU are unable to tell the difference - but it does not definitively prove that no one else possibly can and it is quite presumptious of you to believe that. Your ears are not a reference standard in my world. Yes, I know you think I'm nuts. Listen, I can listen to digital music for about 10 minutes and then I have to turn it off. I can listen to analog music ALL NIGHT on the same system. Why is that?
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Maybe you have a crappy digital set-up?
 
vwestlife said:
I hope you're not referring to the debunked "stairsteps" myth. The reason why the filter on the output of a DAC is called a reconstruction filter is because it reconstructs the waveform exactly as it was before it was converted to digital:


If you're an adult male, you probably can't hear much above 15 kHz, let alone 20 kHz. Try turning on an old CRT television. Can you still hear the flyback whine? If not, then that means you're not hearing anything above 15.7 kHz.

And regardless, many vinyl records are mastered with lowpass filtering around 16 kHz, to keep high-frequency sounds from causing mistracking and splattering on turntables with a conical stylus.
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That's a great video - thanks for posting. :thumbsup:
 
32231P said:
On second thought I can see clearly now that signing up for this forum was probably a mistake. You guys are absolutely convinced that digital is so superior in every way and that there's no way human ears can tell a difference and analog is just crap. Too bad. So I'm outta here. I'll go back to the old folks home now. Have a nice forum boys.
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Au contraire, many of the golden oldies around this joint live and die by their analogue systems, vinyl, etc., and are only getting into digital sources as more than an accident, lol. I think you've misread many of the membership's responses @ this, and likely other, thread(s).

But if ya gotta go, ya gotta go. Shalom.
 
spark1 said:
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

BTW, no one suggested analog is crap. Many of us love it. And many don't like digital. And many like both.
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Yeah, methinks our digruntled pal didn't quite graps the gist of y'all's conversation. To accuse -- of all places on the web! -- AK membership of being hostile to analogue reproduction of sound... lol .... that just makes me, well, lol even more.
 
I must admit that i enjoy seeing the differenes of opinions in context such as this. I know i should'nt but well i just do. I just enjoy the music whether analog or digital,its just good. At the end of the day its just music. I also cannot figure out why my writing type changed!! I'll stick to mostly analog.
 
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Part of this, is just plain ole availability. Big producers don't want to print and handle CDs anymore, so they push the download, itunes, streaming thingy that most folks prefer anyway. LP fans aren't up for options: Its vinyl or nothing. But CDs still serve a purpose: onsite retail for musicians. Performers need to sell product on site, cash in hand. Hard to do with download, itune streaming thingys, lol. Oasis will still be around for independent musicians for that reason, and may be the only outlet for new CD production. I bought a CD at a coffeehouse recently from a regional performer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
I'm not all that surprised, CDs are in a weird position where they're not the latest and greatest thing anymore (having been replaced by MP3 and streaming) but they're not old enough to be retro (vinyl).
Personally I love CDs, they are by far my favorite medium, but most of the CDs I buy are used because you can get some really good deals and it's much lower risk than buying used vinyl. I would go all streaming but I like physically owning the media.
 
From what I am seeing in the Vinyls Stores around here, vinyls is going to keep growing for the foreseeable future. Lots of young people buying every time I go, even during the beer virus. I have not seen anyone pick up a CD in these stores. My 25 and 31yr old daughters and all their friends that are into music buy vinyls and stream from a Hi-Res service. I don’t know any that own a CD.

We (My daughters and a few friends) where talking about this a few weeks ago. “Hi-Res streaming sounds as good or better than CD so why have more clutter”, I tend to agree IME. They see CDs as a waste of space and time and see zero nostalgia in them.

This mindset and the fact the younger audiophools (for the most part) do not have the “I have to own it on physical media” hang-up that their parents and grandparents have (they embrace streaming). I can see physical units topping CD as us old peps start feeding the worms.

:beerchug:
 
GChief said:
My 25 and 31yr old daughters and all their friends that are into music buy vinyls and stream from a Hi-Res service. I don’t know any that own a CD.
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Interesting. Do they have good quality turntables or are they happy with entry-level turntables?
 
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