Vinyl, the Minidisc and an AVA DAC........

[WaynerN]

A couple of years ago I spent some time recording a dozen LPs onto the Minidisc format using my Sony MDS-JB930 for use on a couple of my Sony Minidisc Walkman players (MZ-R50, MZ-E44).

Yesterday, I decided to get out the owner's manual for the big deck and in the specifications, it said its digital output from the S/PDIF was 44.1Kbit. I was somewhat confused as Minidiscs are recorded at 292kbit using the ATRAC codec. Anyway, I wondered how the deck would sound running the digital output into Frank Van Alstine's Vision DAC. First up was Dead Can Dance - Spiritchaser on MOFI. All I could say is WOW!!! How is this possible? Now I'm sitting with about 50 empty Minidiscs and pondering a game plan for those.

The bigger question is why go thru all the work to archive onto a Minidisc? While its not a ton of work, to do this I have to remove the deck from the digital system and bring it into the vinyl room (where there is no room for anything) and go thru the process of recording analog.

Has anyone else done this, done it with regrets or otherwise.

And I suppose the deck spits out 44.1 from its S/PDIF to make it compatible with other digital stuff......which now makes sense of that.......

 

[crazy-in-az]

Yesterday, I decided to get out the owner's manual for the big deck and in the specifications, it said its digital output from the S/PDIF was 44.1Kbit. I was somewhat confused as Minidiscs are recorded at 292kbit using the ATRAC codec.

The S/PDIF output is measured in kilohertz (or kH), meaning the sound waves are sampled 44,100 times a second. Kilobits (or kB) refer to how much information is stored by or used by the device. So your songs on the minidisc take up 292,000 bits of information per second.

 

[safebet]

A couple of years ago I spent some time recording a dozen LPs onto the Minidisc format using my Sony MDS-JB930 for use on a couple of my Sony Minidisc Walkman players (MZ-R50, MZ-E44).

Yesterday, I decided to get out the owner's manual for the big deck and in the specifications, it said its digital output from the S/PDIF was 44.1Kbit. I was somewhat confused as Minidiscs are recorded at 292kbit using the ATRAC codec. Anyway, I wondered how the deck would sound running the digital output into Frank Van Alstine's Vision DAC. First up was Dead Can Dance - Spiritchaser on MOFI. All I could say is WOW!!! How is this possible? Now I'm sitting with about 50 empty Minidiscs and pondering a game plan for those.

The bigger question is why go thru all the work to archive onto a Minidisc? While its not a ton of work, to do this I have to remove the deck from the digital system and bring it into the vinyl room (where there is no room for anything) and go thru the process of recording analog.

Has anyone else done this, done it with regrets or otherwise.

And I suppose the deck spits out 44.1 from its S/PDIF to make it compatible with other digital stuff......which now makes sense of that.......

MDS-JB940 owner here, found an incredible deal on a mint set of them years ago. I also had the idea of using them to compile LP cuts for playback in different rooms. I was thinking, "What a convenient way to create custom compilations!".

The problem was that ATRAC encoder. Some recordings are not as demanding as others but it quickly showed deficiencies. My buzz was killed listening to playback of an Al Di Meola track from "Land of the Midnight Sun". It made a mess of the sonic integrity of high hat cymbals. I sold one of the decks at a handsome profit but kept one as I had bought a couple boxes of blanks and hope one day to find a good deal on a portable unit. A better DAC may provide benefit but for my ear the lossy format encoding doesn't cut it.

 

[WaynerN]

Thanks for your input @safebet. I've decided to pull my head out of the "dark place" and archive onto CD-Rs. It makes the most sense this way. Then I can take whatever is on the CD-R and download onto my computer, make a minidisc or play the CD-R on any machine in the house (or truck, SUV).

 

[luxmaster]

Thanks for your input @safebet. I've decided to pull my head out of the "dark place" and archive onto CD-Rs. It makes the most sense this way. Then I can take whatever is on the CD-R and download onto my computer, make a minidisc or play the CD-R on any machine in the house (or truck, SUV).

One thing you should consider is that minidisc will out live cd-rs. I think cd-rs have a lifespan of 10-15 years where minidisc you can record over and over and last a hundred years

 

[WaynerN]

One thing you should consider is that minidisc will out live cd-rs. I think cd-rs have a lifespan of 10-15 years where minidisc you can record over and over and last a hundred years

I don't think either one is a proven fact. I also do not know if I have a life span of 10-15 years.........I probably will download to the computer if I decide to invest the time. Its a lot of work to record to a device from an analog source.

 

[luxmaster]

I don't think either one is a proven fact. I also do not know if I have a life span of 10-15 years.........I probably will download to the computer if I decide to invest the time. Its a lot of work to record to a device from an analog source.

Well so far I had to toss out all my cd-rs and dvdr's because they started to fail. They went back to the mid late 90's but never had an issue with a minidisc yet. However I get your point if time is not an issue for you then burn away...

 

[WaynerN]

Well so far I had to toss out all my cd-rs and dvdr's because they started to fail. They went back to the mid late 90's but never had an issue with a minidisc yet. However I get your point if time is not an issue for you then burn away...

I have never thrown one CD-R away due to failure. What brand were you using?

 

[onwardjames]

I have a pair of highly coveted Sony MD players, one is the JA20ES. I do not hear the blurring of cymbals that others have noticed. That thing sounds amazing to my ears.

However, I burn all my records onto cd-r's and then archive in my database (computer HD).

I have a soft spot for a format that really isn't needed anymore.

 

[David_NC]

Well so far I had to toss out all my cd-rs and dvdr's because they started to fail. They went back to the mid late 90's but never had an issue with a minidisc yet. However I get your point if time is not an issue for you then burn away...

I've also had an issue with various random CD-R's that I made back in the mid-late 90's. Some won't play, and others have had the reflective surface bubble up / come detached from the clear portion.

I have never thrown one CD-R away due to failure. What brand were you using?

In my case, I have had quite a few Verbatim CD-R's exhibit the issues I mentioned above. I'll have to check to see if I still have others.

 

[luxmaster]

Actually it also was mainly verbatims and Memorex. Bubbles would appear and some rot. Others would not play but look fine. I didn't want to get into the habit of burning only to fail to play years later. Minidisc and digital works for me

I've also had an issue with various random CD-R's that I made back in the mid-late 90's. Some won't play, and others have had the reflective surface bubble up / come detached from the clear portion.



In my case, I have had quite a few Verbatim CD-R's exhibit the issues I mentioned above. I'll have to check to see if I still have others.

 

[David_NC]

Actually it also was mainly verbatims and Memorex. Bubbles would appear and some rot. Others would not play but look fine. I didn't want to get into the habit of burning only to fail to play years later. Minidisc and digital works for me

Ah yes, Memorex... the other brand that I had a lot of failures with. I also had horrible luck with their cassettes which would often last less than a year. For comparison, I still have quite a few TDK and Maxell tapes that have lasted since the late 70's (and no Memorex tapes at all).

 

[luxmaster]

I also would still be into cassettes except they were starting to fade out and the pressure pads would eventually fall off. Memorex and BASF were bad and Maxell and TDK were ontop

 

[restorer-john]

I decided the best backup for my CDs (in case the house burns down etc) was simply buy any and all my favourite ones as I see them on the secondhand market and store them in my storeroom as spares.

One thing you should consider is that minidisc will out live cd-rs. I think cd-rs have a lifespan of 10-15 years where minidisc you can record over and over and last a hundred years

The machines are the issue and I can assure you, they won't last 100 years...

 

[AudioFeline]

The Hi-MD format was a great improvement over the low-capacity predecessor. The Hi-MD had improved ATRAC encoder, and could also record non-compressed. However, I've been less than happy with my uncompressed recordings (digitizing records so I can listen to them in the car), the waveforms have lots of artifacts.

I can't see the point of MD now - CD-R's and digital playback from files, plus quality portable digital recorders make the technology redundant.

 

[WaynerN]

Many minidisc recorders on the Bay are br

The Hi-MD format was a great improvement over the low-capacity predecessor. The Hi-MD had improved ATRAC encoder, and could also record non-compressed. However, I've been less than happy with my uncompressed recordings (digitizing records so I can listen to them in the car), the waveforms have lots of artifacts.

I can't see the point of MD now - CD-R's and digital playback from files, plus quality portable digital recorders make the technology redundant.

I have a flash drive used in a S.M.S.L player out in the garage as musical source. I have put about 30 CDs on it and it sounds amazing.

I have also wondered about SSD storage as being a safe harbor. I had a Western Digital USB hard drive that failed and there went some recordings. I haven't had a jump drive fail yet.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

I have also wondered about SSD storage as being a safe harbor. I had a Western Digital USB hard drive that failed and there went some recordings. I haven't had a jump drive fail yet.

Modern SSD units are generally very reliable -- though I've had a few early ones fail -- as long as they're powered and kept within a specified temperature range. With power off and/or extreme temperatures, data loss is pretty much inevitable. See https://www.extremetech.com/computing/205382-ssds-can-lose-data-in-as-little-as-7-days-without-power

 

[WaynerN]

Maybe I should stick to jump drives.....

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Maybe I should stick to jump drives.....

Archive (i.e., unpowered) life of data on flash drives is theoretically probably about seven to ten years, but you should be refreshing archives more often due to inevitable format and media changes and improvements.

However, flash drives tend to be cheap and thus poor quality -- though I am sure there are exceptions -- which makes them suitable for data transfer between machines but not reliable enough to treat as permanent or even temporary archive storage.

Every year I had multiple students that would try to use flash drives to keep their coursework -- rather than using the university-supplied online and backed-up storage -- who would lose everything when drives failed unexpectedly.

 

[WaynerN]

Archive (i.e., unpowered) life of data on flash drives is theoretically probably about seven to ten years, but you should be refreshing archives more often due to inevitable format and media changes and improvements.

However, flash drives tend to be cheap and thus poor quality -- though I am sure there are exceptions -- which makes them suitable for data transfer between machines but not reliable enough to treat as permanent or even temporary archive storage.

Every year I had multiple students that would try to use flash drives to keep their coursework -- rather than using the university-supplied online and backed-up storage -- who would lose everything when drives failed unexpectedly.

Well, so far flash drives have a 100% survival rate, USB harddrive has 100% failure rate.