mkane
Lunatic Member
Means I have to buy something. NGH. https://www.google.com/search?q=chr....69i57j0l5.12288j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Vinyl Vs Spotify Home Test
- Thread starter Makis
- Start date
I use three sources
1. Songs ripped to my NAS (flac, WAV) streamed over my WIFI to a Sonos Connect through an Adcom DAC and into my Line Stage preamp.
2.Tidal (lossless) through a Chromecast Audio through the same Adcom GDA700 DAC into my Line Stage Preamp.
3. Thorens TD-124 turntable, SME-3009 Series II (non improved) tonearm, Grado Statement Sonata2 Cartridge, Audio Research PH3 Phono Pre into my Line Stage Preamp.
For my setup, I think vinyl sounds the best. But I can't say it's $4000 better than my digital setup.
It costs a lot of money to get the most out of vinyl while nearly as good digital playback can be had at a fraction of the cost.
1. Songs ripped to my NAS (flac, WAV) streamed over my WIFI to a Sonos Connect through an Adcom DAC and into my Line Stage preamp.
2.Tidal (lossless) through a Chromecast Audio through the same Adcom GDA700 DAC into my Line Stage Preamp.
3. Thorens TD-124 turntable, SME-3009 Series II (non improved) tonearm, Grado Statement Sonata2 Cartridge, Audio Research PH3 Phono Pre into my Line Stage Preamp.
For my setup, I think vinyl sounds the best. But I can't say it's $4000 better than my digital setup.
It costs a lot of money to get the most out of vinyl while nearly as good digital playback can be had at a fraction of the cost.
Condorsat
Audio Enthusiast
Comparing Vinyl to Streaming (lossy) in this case is harder than it would appear IMHO.
Are the mastering(s) the same? Are your source components up to the job? Speakers and ... etc.
A change of equipment can change your mind real fast in my recent experience.
In my case ... last year my streaming components were getting close (different but in the ball park). The
new Phono Pre I purchased last December put Vinyl firmly back in the lead again. Next streaming upgrade ... who knows? I'm certainly happy as a pig in a peach orchard with my rig now.
Are the mastering(s) the same? Are your source components up to the job? Speakers and ... etc.
A change of equipment can change your mind real fast in my recent experience.
In my case ... last year my streaming components were getting close (different but in the ball park). The
new Phono Pre I purchased last December put Vinyl firmly back in the lead again. Next streaming upgrade ... who knows? I'm certainly happy as a pig in a peach orchard with my rig now.
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Nixxuz
Super Member
I dunno. I've got extremely high bitrate digital files that I play from a tablet though my DAC into my Little Dot MkII, and it does sound really good. But I just picked up the Yaqin MS-23B in my sig, and, at this moment at least, the sound of The Nightfly is FAR better on vinyl than digital. It certainly could be the accompanying ritual, or the buyers confirmation regarding the equipment as well.
It certainly doesn't hurt that I fixed the rumble/feedback I was getting in my TT chain by simply moving the location of the splitter...and adding 2 15" powered subs to the rear of the room. These concrete floors are murder on any sort of tactile bass response!
If only I had a bit more time these days.
But I'll freely admit, it's nice to be able to cue up some Dire Straits and have 4-5 albums play in a row, rather than getting up every 15 minutes to flip the disc.
Spoiled for choice!
It certainly doesn't hurt that I fixed the rumble/feedback I was getting in my TT chain by simply moving the location of the splitter...and adding 2 15" powered subs to the rear of the room. These concrete floors are murder on any sort of tactile bass response!
If only I had a bit more time these days.
But I'll freely admit, it's nice to be able to cue up some Dire Straits and have 4-5 albums play in a row, rather than getting up every 15 minutes to flip the disc.
Spoiled for choice!
Different time zones paid off after all! I woke up to 2 pages of replies(hello from Greece)!
Reading all of the above just verified what I had in mind. A 300$ turntable can give you some pretty serious quality, but if you want to get better than other means you will have to invest. In my opinion the fact that with entry level analog gear I got to this level means a lot for its potential . Do I want to invest in a better TT and phono? Not sure yet. Maybe I will have to audition something better and see if its worth it for me!
Reading all of the above just verified what I had in mind. A 300$ turntable can give you some pretty serious quality, but if you want to get better than other means you will have to invest. In my opinion the fact that with entry level analog gear I got to this level means a lot for its potential . Do I want to invest in a better TT and phono? Not sure yet. Maybe I will have to audition something better and see if its worth it for me!
I use Spotify Premium through an iPad with Apple Talk going into the Aux. inputs. It's pretty darn good, but the old Dual 1219 with a Shure V15III on quality vinyl still beats it 90% of the time.
On the outdoor system I use Spotify all the time. Inside for critical listening vinyl, but that's just me.
On the outdoor system I use Spotify all the time. Inside for critical listening vinyl, but that's just me.
Nixxuz
Super Member
I guess I don't know too much about it, but the better pre could make a big difference. I was running an ART DJPre II, and my new Yaqin MS-23B outperforms it in nearly every aspect. Another thought that doesn't hit the wallet quite as hard is a new stylus. I "think' you could upgrade to the OM20-30-40 range with that cart? I went from an AT3842 to my current Ortofon 320P, and there is quite a bit of difference.
Todd Dodds
Super Member
I've developed a pretty serious scientific listening protocol for critical testing of analogue vs digital.
It's simple...I put on a record or Spotify/Tidal, and sit down. If it sounds good enough that I want to listen without getting up and switching formats, I'm done.
I mostly stream for enjoyment, and fiddle with turntables for exercise and fun.
The front end definitely makes a difference.
No personal experience with your table, but all of my tables better all of my digital playback devices. I prefer CD to streaming, and no my players are not state of the art, but neither are my tables. Digital just sounds "thin" to me is the only way I can describe it, and streaming sounds the thinnest. No real body, maybe what many describe as warmth, so I guess you could say "cold", analytical might be a better descriptive.
Admittedly I haven't sunk "any" real money into streaming, inexpensive DAC, no paid subscriptions, etc so that could be part of what's holding it back, but I'm really not that interested to invest more anyway.
The digital front end consists of top tier Sony units like the DVP NS999ES, no outboard DAC, just the one already on board so maybe this is holding back my digital SQ.
My analog front end consists of vintage tables like the venerable AR XA, Thorens TD166MKII, Kenwood KD500, Kenwood KD770D, Mitsubishi DP-EC8, but again, no external phono pre, no stylus/cartridge over $350, so maybe this is holding back my analog rigs?
What I'm trying to say is, all of my audio chains have their own weak links, yet the analog still wins in the end because its the sound "I'm" looking for and that's what really matters.
If you're liking the SQ you're getting from both then put on some tunes and crank the music.
As for which analog table is getting me the most out of my records?
1. Kenwood KD770D
2. Kenwood KD500
3. AR XA
4. Thorens TD166MKII
5. Mitsubishi DP-EC8
It's a really close race between the Kennys now with the Grace cartridge on the Grace arm adorning my KD500.
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Until last week I was using an Acer Laptop to access Spotify premium and of course Flac files on my network via JRiver. This was USB fed to an Emotiva XDA-2 DAC then to my tube preamp and I was very happy with the SQ. Other AK members on here can attest that have been over that there were plenty of draw dropping moments with how good it sounded.
My little Laptop crapped out so I made a change and picked up a Bluesound Node 2. Oh my, the previous set-up was pretty easy, but this takes it to another level guys. Sit in my listening position with my tablet and just do it all, access everything, control volume etc and the SQ is fantastic. Streamer, manager, DAC all in one.
But, I will say, it still comes down to the original quality of the mastering, pressing, recording etc. there is unfortunately just a fair amount of stuff that just doesn't sound as good as you'd wish.
As for Vinyl, I have nice gear and I am thinking I narrow my focus on record purchasing to just stuff I think is special. My guess is that we may see 2 formats for music evolve. Streaming and Vinyl with the vinyl being for those that want to own an actual copy of the media.
My little Laptop crapped out so I made a change and picked up a Bluesound Node 2. Oh my, the previous set-up was pretty easy, but this takes it to another level guys. Sit in my listening position with my tablet and just do it all, access everything, control volume etc and the SQ is fantastic. Streamer, manager, DAC all in one.
But, I will say, it still comes down to the original quality of the mastering, pressing, recording etc. there is unfortunately just a fair amount of stuff that just doesn't sound as good as you'd wish.
As for Vinyl, I have nice gear and I am thinking I narrow my focus on record purchasing to just stuff I think is special. My guess is that we may see 2 formats for music evolve. Streaming and Vinyl with the vinyl being for those that want to own an actual copy of the media.
Sounds like you have your TT and cart setup, aligned well. Congrats. Some people never get there.
I was to the Axpona Audio show, Chicago recently. In listening rooms, I had to look to see if the turntables were the source. Could not tell otherwise. Of course, they were useing pristine vinyl along with high end TT and MC carts, too. These were systems shipped in and setup in few hours. Can be done.
edit: And people with skills to setup turntables and ears to know when its right.
I was to the Axpona Audio show, Chicago recently. In listening rooms, I had to look to see if the turntables were the source. Could not tell otherwise. Of course, they were useing pristine vinyl along with high end TT and MC carts, too. These were systems shipped in and setup in few hours. Can be done.
edit: And people with skills to setup turntables and ears to know when its right.
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canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
I wouldn't focus so much on the fact it is "lossy". I'd focus more on the codec itself - the codec is what makes the most difference, not the bitrate. That's especially true nowadays where almost all music is encoded at 256kbps (such as Apple Music) or higher (Spotify, Tidal, etc). Personally, I prefer the sound of Apple Music above all - and it is 256kbps AAC, whereas Tidal is FLAC and Spotify is 320kbps Ogg Vorbis.
FLAC is and likely always will be very good, especially the 24-bit, 96Khz+ stuff, but for accessibility and overall sound quality, I have to give it to AAC.
To the OP - I'm not at all surprised with your findings. I've owned a record player since the beginning of getting into this hobby and, I have never once thought vinyl sounded better than my digital rig. You need to spend a lot of money on a record player, cartridge and phono amp to get better quality. It is an inherently flawed format and to rival digital it needs serious compensation. Digital on the other hand, you just need a good quality DAC and you're done.
Condorsat
Audio Enthusiast
I prefer the sound of AAC to MP3 at lower bit rates. Once it get's to 320kbps + ... the differences are really hard to detect IMHO & experience.
IMHO ... digital get a good DAC and your done .. not that easy. Technically, yes ... but most of the advantage of digital was tossed out the window with the loudness wars and over processing. Vinyl vrs Digital is like one ball team having all the stats on their side but still managing to make the game close or a toss up. You have to search for good sounding digital recordings ... just like you have to search for good sounding records.
Bernie Grundman On The Dangers of Over Processing In Mastering
IMHO ... digital get a good DAC and your done .. not that easy. Technically, yes ... but most of the advantage of digital was tossed out the window with the loudness wars and over processing. Vinyl vrs Digital is like one ball team having all the stats on their side but still managing to make the game close or a toss up. You have to search for good sounding digital recordings ... just like you have to search for good sounding records.
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I couldn’t disagree more. Why throw anything out the window? If that works for you, fine. That sentiment is not at all consistent with comments you've made previously:
"...but no compromise on sound quality whatsoever."
Huh?
Fortunately, I’ve only found a couple of cases where the only available format for music I wanted was lossy. And I love my considerable collection of 24 bit content.
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+48V
hi-fi or die
Measured against the current crop of lossless streaming providers. (Tidal, Deezer, Qobuz) I'll toss this out...
- Superior UI--desktop and mobile
- Ubiquitous user/device control
- Much better song suggestion algorithm
- Autoplay on que exhaustion<--a biggie
- Better In house playlist curation
- Taste Tailored Weekly playlists
- Collaborative playlists<--very cool
- Cross platform import
- Shazam/SoundHound integration<--a biggie
- Gapless playback<--the biggest biggie
I've demo'd Deezer and Qobuz. I've had Tidal HiFi via comp account going on two years. I rarely use it (threw it out the window) because of it's crippled and lackluster feature set as noted above. For the majority of environments and usage, lossless playback via the currently available providers it is nowhere near worth the trade offs. If it works for you sans the above attributes...party on. Experience is as experience does.
Maybe at some point I will try upgrading my phono stage(tube maybe??) and my cartridge/stylus. I also remember that I have a Asus Xonar DG soundcard on some old PC. Maybe I'll try hooking that up and see if it makes any difference on spotify. Gotta admit, this experiment has been very helpful for me so far.
EDIT:I think its worth mentioning that the Yes LP I tested was not exactly remastered but "Cut from the original tapes"
EDIT:I think its worth mentioning that the Yes LP I tested was not exactly remastered but "Cut from the original tapes"
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My comments were solely about digital formats - lossy vs. high resolution.