I have a really, really nice HW-19 with one small problem... I don't have a motor pulley. The platter is 11.5", the motor is a BergerLahr 600RPM. Shaft size of the motor is ~.118" which is 3mm metric. Can anyone enlighten me on either (a) where I could get the correct motor pulley (VPI just isn't working for me as they no longer support the HW-19) or could someone give me a proper drawing of the pulley/dimensions/etc.? It sounds like this motor in an HW-19 is a tad unusual but not unheard of. Any help for this newbie would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
VPI HW-19 Pulley Question
- Thread starter jimcanuck
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I'm not familiar with that motor. Typical VPi motor is a hurst motor with a .1875" shaft. At any rate, you might try SDP-SI.com I've bought several pulleys for them. And you can find adapters that convert .1875 to 4mm (RC boat supply sites). Let me know if you have problems locating.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Yeah, this motor was not a common one. I only vaguely recall them using some German made motor for a point in time, perhaps very early production, and might assume this is it.
Another I'm unsure of at the moment, is Platter Diameter you mention?
Because I would've suggested to perhaps try to find a Hurst Motor for the HW-19 with Pulley intact (and with Run Capacitor, or buy one), or the VPI SAMA which was made for the HW-19. Possible problem with that, is if the more common Hurst Motor, or SAMA that was used on many HW-19 Models has a different Diameter Pulley for 33.3 and 45rpm, you won't achieve correct speeds if your Platter Diameter is of a different size than what was typically-commonly used.
Someone like Tedrick here might be able to provide Platter Dimensions of his HW-19 MK-IV Platter for your reference?
SAMA Motors are also quite rare, but if Platter Dimensions are the same, this would be an option, and a good option-upgrade for the HW-19.
As for sourcing a Pulley somewhere, it would of course need to be designed and machined to retain the drive belt. Otherwise a Pulley with flat sides won't do it, the Belt would slip off.
Edit:
I cannot personally confirm at the moment, but believe all the HW-19 and TNT Platters were 11.5" Diameter.
Another I'm unsure of at the moment, is Platter Diameter you mention?
Because I would've suggested to perhaps try to find a Hurst Motor for the HW-19 with Pulley intact (and with Run Capacitor, or buy one), or the VPI SAMA which was made for the HW-19. Possible problem with that, is if the more common Hurst Motor, or SAMA that was used on many HW-19 Models has a different Diameter Pulley for 33.3 and 45rpm, you won't achieve correct speeds if your Platter Diameter is of a different size than what was typically-commonly used.
Someone like Tedrick here might be able to provide Platter Dimensions of his HW-19 MK-IV Platter for your reference?
SAMA Motors are also quite rare, but if Platter Dimensions are the same, this would be an option, and a good option-upgrade for the HW-19.
As for sourcing a Pulley somewhere, it would of course need to be designed and machined to retain the drive belt. Otherwise a Pulley with flat sides won't do it, the Belt would slip off.
Edit:
I cannot personally confirm at the moment, but believe all the HW-19 and TNT Platters were 11.5" Diameter.
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markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I would assume that finding another Motor such as the Hurst to retrofit, or better yet, the HW-19 SAMA would be likely easier to source than the right pulley, but who can say?
The places I'd be looking would be Ebay, Audiomart, and Audiogon as a few classifieds to search.
I would also entertain looking at the Canuck Audiomart, and others even if another country.
On Audiomart, it is easy enough to register free, and then place a wanted Ad for either another HW-19 Motor intact, or the SAMA.
I myself lucked into a mint HW-19 Second Version SAMA many years ago from an Audiogon Seller. ($300 if I recall) It is a worthy upgrade because it physically separates-isolates the Drive Motor from the Turntable Base. (SAMA= Stand Alone Motor Assembly)
The only minor modification I had to do, was lightly mill-sand the rear left corner brace of the inside of the Wood Base so the SAMA would fit better and be slightly further away from the Platter for correct Belt Tension,and better positioning of the Pulley as it comes up through the top Plinth. After drawing with a pencil what stock needed to be removed, it took 10 minutes to do.
The SAMA can be very simply wired to the existing ON-OFF Switch on the HW-19.
Again, I hope such information I've provided helps you in your quest.
The places I'd be looking would be Ebay, Audiomart, and Audiogon as a few classifieds to search.
I would also entertain looking at the Canuck Audiomart, and others even if another country.
On Audiomart, it is easy enough to register free, and then place a wanted Ad for either another HW-19 Motor intact, or the SAMA.
I myself lucked into a mint HW-19 Second Version SAMA many years ago from an Audiogon Seller. ($300 if I recall) It is a worthy upgrade because it physically separates-isolates the Drive Motor from the Turntable Base. (SAMA= Stand Alone Motor Assembly)
The only minor modification I had to do, was lightly mill-sand the rear left corner brace of the inside of the Wood Base so the SAMA would fit better and be slightly further away from the Platter for correct Belt Tension,and better positioning of the Pulley as it comes up through the top Plinth. After drawing with a pencil what stock needed to be removed, it took 10 minutes to do.
The SAMA can be very simply wired to the existing ON-OFF Switch on the HW-19.
Again, I hope such information I've provided helps you in your quest.
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Thank you both for your input. I will keep an eye out for a SAMA, I now know that is an option but I am having big trouble finding *anything* that would resolve this issue. Can't find a pulley, can't find a SAMA and (being honest) I don't really want to retrofit another motor if I can avoid it. If I can get a diagram of the pulley w/dimensions I can get one made but I can't locate the diagram and/or specs to have one made. VPI has tried to assist but really no luck there. From what I can tell there are still a lot of HW-19's around so I find it a bit surprising that they don't support them. Thank you again! and... by the way.... NYUK, NYUK, NYUK right back at ya!
I will try them... thank you!
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I spent a number of times today searching for you with numerous sources and searches, Audiomarts in USA, Canada, and UK, Ebay, and other audio sites for a used motor with Pulley, or a SAMA for you, and no luck so far.
Don't worry, I don't mind a bit, not at all. And I'll continue to periodically search for you in hopes you get this resolved.
Trying to retrofit something from another source will likely be a waste of your money.
Yes, I have an entire mint Motor, Pulley and Mounting Hardware from my HW-19 Table that was removed intact when I retrofitted the SAMA Motor, but I'd hate to part with it in the event the Motor goes bad in the SAMA.
I have no intentions of parting with my HW-19, I have a lot of money and time invested into it, and as far as I know, the Hurst Motor in my second version SAMA is the exact same motor as my original Hurst Motor, but placed into a Metal Case is all.
The problem so much isn't a retrofit of another Motor, I think there was one company who made a DC Motor and was a supposed upgrade. The problem then might be would be the Pulley, which would have to be a compatible match for your HW-19 Platter Diameter. While VPI may have Pulleys available for newer models, I don't believe any of the newer modles have an 11.5" Dia. Platter anymore.
HW-19 Parts from VPI and their Dealers etc, started drying up about 10 or so years ago sadly. Places like MusicDirect, who is VPI's premier dealer in USA shows a SAMA in a search on their website, but then states "no longer available" sadly. It would be the same outcome anywhere at present I gather.
I have a good friend who has worked at MusicDirect for many years. For kicks I could give him a call. He might have leads for such that I'm not aware of.
I would say don't give up, that in time you will get something to get that table running again.
BTW, I forgot to mention a welcome to this forum. One never knows, another HW-19 Owner in this forum may have a spare motor, whether good or bad, but might possibly have that pulley you need.
Don't worry, I don't mind a bit, not at all. And I'll continue to periodically search for you in hopes you get this resolved.
Trying to retrofit something from another source will likely be a waste of your money.
Yes, I have an entire mint Motor, Pulley and Mounting Hardware from my HW-19 Table that was removed intact when I retrofitted the SAMA Motor, but I'd hate to part with it in the event the Motor goes bad in the SAMA.
I have no intentions of parting with my HW-19, I have a lot of money and time invested into it, and as far as I know, the Hurst Motor in my second version SAMA is the exact same motor as my original Hurst Motor, but placed into a Metal Case is all.
The problem so much isn't a retrofit of another Motor, I think there was one company who made a DC Motor and was a supposed upgrade. The problem then might be would be the Pulley, which would have to be a compatible match for your HW-19 Platter Diameter. While VPI may have Pulleys available for newer models, I don't believe any of the newer modles have an 11.5" Dia. Platter anymore.
HW-19 Parts from VPI and their Dealers etc, started drying up about 10 or so years ago sadly. Places like MusicDirect, who is VPI's premier dealer in USA shows a SAMA in a search on their website, but then states "no longer available" sadly. It would be the same outcome anywhere at present I gather.
I have a good friend who has worked at MusicDirect for many years. For kicks I could give him a call. He might have leads for such that I'm not aware of.
I would say don't give up, that in time you will get something to get that table running again.
BTW, I forgot to mention a welcome to this forum. One never knows, another HW-19 Owner in this forum may have a spare motor, whether good or bad, but might possibly have that pulley you need.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
There were a few different pulleys that were made by VPI for the HW-19. I've seen some in Delrin, and I've seen some in Brass or Bronze. And I've seen some slight differences in design as well.
For instance, my original HW-19 Motor (in which my Table was originally a Jr, Model) came with just a 2-step Delrin Pulley, meaning either 33,3 or 45rpm.
But on my SAMA Motor there is a different type Pulley, in that for 33.3, the Pulley is "stepped", meaning the pulley is sort of conically shaped, and with a number of machined grooves where the Belt can be positioned on.
This then allowed for slight tweaking in speed, and would then be a matter of checking speed with a Strobe Disc to achieve the closet speed to an exact 33.3rpm.
All HW-19 Tables had slight degree of speed error, whether slightly slow, or slightly fast. There then was a need for VPI to address this in the past, with first making the Analog PLC Speed Controller, and later the SDS. I have the SDS. Both components varied-adjusted Hertz.
There are others who made similar devices that could be used, Walker, and some others for speed control of these AC Synchronous Turntable Motors.
For instance, my original HW-19 Motor (in which my Table was originally a Jr, Model) came with just a 2-step Delrin Pulley, meaning either 33,3 or 45rpm.
But on my SAMA Motor there is a different type Pulley, in that for 33.3, the Pulley is "stepped", meaning the pulley is sort of conically shaped, and with a number of machined grooves where the Belt can be positioned on.
This then allowed for slight tweaking in speed, and would then be a matter of checking speed with a Strobe Disc to achieve the closet speed to an exact 33.3rpm.
All HW-19 Tables had slight degree of speed error, whether slightly slow, or slightly fast. There then was a need for VPI to address this in the past, with first making the Analog PLC Speed Controller, and later the SDS. I have the SDS. Both components varied-adjusted Hertz.
There are others who made similar devices that could be used, Walker, and some others for speed control of these AC Synchronous Turntable Motors.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Yes, that might be another possible option also. Thanks for sharing!
BTW, I just placed a want ad on Audiomart since I am a registered member there.
Placed an Ad for a VPI SAMA, but explained the predicament of a missing Pulley, that a working Hurst Motor and Pulley, or just the Pulley for the German Made Motor would be options also.
edwyun
Super Member
I am currently using a SOTA total eclipse package on my VPI Prime. I can confirm the the SOTA total eclipse boxes do have settings for 11.5" and 12" platters. So using the SOTA total eclipse package could potentially work, but at a not-insignificant cost. Plus side is that the BLDC motor measures much quieter than the VPI/Hurst motor. I do recall someone doing this on their HW19.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I did get one response from an Audiomart Member pertaining to my wanted Ad that I placed.
He claimed he just recently got a Pulley from VPI, and to email Jose at VPI.
I wrote back to this person asking which Motor was the Pulley for, but haven't yet gotten back a response.
Find that sort of odd, because there's been a number of times I personally tried emailing VPI and never got a response.
If for say there is availability of a Pulley, but for the Hurst Motor instead, well, that would mean acquiring a Hurst Motor, probably not that hard, the Model of the Motor is known. And it will require a Run Capacitor also.
The problem might be adapting it to existing bracketry that was used for the other Motor, and might be incompatibility issues.
Here's another thought that has come to mind.
There is a VPI Forum which I'm sure is free to join. Pose your same questions-issues there, and you might be able to resolve your issue, and hopefully an easy, and not expensive fix.
This will be a place where there will be a likely higher concentration of HW-19 Owners and VPI Collectors-Users. Some might have lots of spare parts lying around.
http://vpiforum.com/index.php
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