Weak Link in Vinyl Playback

[tmk1986]

Hi Everyone,

I’m looking for some input on a weak link in my system, mostly in regards to my vinyl playback chain in a 12’x11’ room.

I currently have a Technics SL-1700 MK1 with an AT-VM95ML cartridge. The turntable is connected to an iFi Zen Phono. The phono is connected to a Schiit Saga S via 3 ft. Blue Jeans BJC LC-1 cable, and the Saga runs to a single Schiit Vidar by the another set of the same cable. The Vidar is connected to Elac Debut B6.2’s via 10 ft. Belden 50000UE cable (as an aside, my digital path is Pro Ject S2 Pre Box Digital connected by the same 3ft. interconnects to the Saga>Vidar>speakers). I’ve connected a sub previously (a Martin Logan Grotto I that I inherited) to the Saga in the past, but am currently running without it.

My concern is that while the digital path sounds full to me, at least as much as can be expected, the vinyl path sounds a bit thin and weak. I guess I’d describe it as kind of lacking energy. My gut tells me the Saga S having 0 gain in both the passive and buffer mode (I run it in passive mode because it sounds more lifelike to me but I’ve used the buffer in the past as well) is the reason for this, but I’m not positive. I’m ready to upgrade to the Freya S if that’s the solution, but I didn’t want to start throwing money at a problem without really narrowing it down first. The Zen phono is set to MM and gain 1, which should be correct for my cartridge, the interconnects aren’t overly long (the speaker cable being 10’ isn’t too big a deal, I think?), the Vidar should be driving my inefficient speakers with no issue and judging by the digital path, it is.

I’m hoping someone here can weigh in on what would make the biggest positive impact in my listening and give me the oomph I think I’m missing. For what it’s worth, I plan on doing some room treatment down the road, but that’s not what I’m looking for advice on at the moment.


Thanks!

 

[justjed2]

Sorry it took so long, just found this! Our systems are really rather similar. I have a pre-Mk2 SL-1800 (there really was no Mk1). I have a Zen. My system is wired with Blue Jeans LC-1s, and 10 White speaker cable. I have a tube hybrid pre-amp, and a class A/AB SS power amp. I have the Pioneer SP-FS51 towers, the smaller forerunner to your Elacs, so I kinda know where you're coming from, though they're not my main speaker currently. It sounds to me like you are doing everything correctly. Maybe play with speaker placement, or possibly a speaker base to bring the tweeters closer to ear level.

I would theorize that a big portion of the issue is the AT cartridge, and more specifically, the Micro Line stylus. The pre-Mk2 tonearm is not adjustable for VTA, a parameter that ML, Shibata, and other more exotic styli, are quite sensitive to. For this reason, I prefer the Fine Line stylus, as used by Ortofon. It's a true line contact stylus, but can be thought of as an advanced hyper-elliptical profile. Regardless, it's less fussy about set-up, works quite well with the standard Technics tonearm geometry, and it sounds really good! I have this profile on two carts. Otherwise, you are left with shims and a microscope to get the VTA and SRA correct.

The Zen is a really good phono-pre for $200! Surprisingly good MM performance. And it's even quieter with the upgraded power supply. But, its 36dB gain in MM is on the low side. I would imagine that with 0 gain on your Saga, it just doesn't have the drive you're looking for. The tube gain stage of the Freya+ will cure THAT nicely! I'm considering one of these myself, so there's that. But, you might also look at a different phono-pre.

The Zen is a good unit, with circuit design input from John Curl, of Parasound fame. You know about the sound quality. I work in electronics, Quality Control, and I can tell you the build quality is excellent for the price. And I understand if you want to keep it. In my opinion, though, it has the same issue as most other budget phono preamps, and that's the power supply, a 5V wall-wart for the Zen. I highly recommend the upgrade, btw. It WILL be quieter, and might add the drive you're after. But, it might not.

Check out the Darlington Labs MM-6, at $300. All discrete components, no ICs, excellent build quality, and 40dB gain. This one runs at 56V internally, from a 24V plug-in power supply(a HIGH quality unit), with zero negative feedback. It's clean. It's quiet. It has drive. To cut to the chase, it's everything the Zen wishes it was.

Not a lot of help, i know, and most is just my opinion. But if anything was helpful, you're welcome! And, now it's back to the top for you! Maybe someone else will chime in.....

 

[Crosbyman]

If you want, you can shim your cartridge and make up for an inability to adjust the vta. I recommend you try removing the mat. imho, it sucks the life out of the sound. If you decide to shim the cartridge, if the stylus angle is rear elevated over center, it will reveal more high end. The reverse is true if shimmed lower. Another cheap trick that sounds like magic but is actually a great isolator tween table and whatever it rests on is a semi inflated bicycle tube. Seriously. The air in the tube insulates a lot of sound from getting to the needle. Don’t scoff, don’t laugh just try it and be amazed. You know how quiet everything outside is when there’s a fresh layer of snow. Same principle. Bicycle tubes are $12. Get a small one cheap. It works. On the end of “Crime of the Century” 1st side, as “Assylum” runs into the runout, can you hear someone say “cuckoo”? I can

 

[Hajidub]

Have you tried zero'ing out the tonearm and resetting the VTF for your cartridge? I can't any reason your system doesn't sound full and rich other than a weak VTF.