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Wharfedale W70 (and others) Experience

CrawfishKing

CrawfishKing

Active Member
Hi guys,

I've been running Wharfedale W70's since mid February and it's been quite the journey. It was a pretty radical shift looking back on it from my upgraded Klipsch Tangent 200's using powerful horn presence to the lush, accurate W70. There was certainly a bit of a learning curve in adjusting my ears and mindset. To boot, within a couple weeks of getting them I moved, going from a 18' x 12' room to 12.5 x 11.5.

Long story short it took a lot to get used to the speakers and room and place them properly. I've had to move into an extremely near field (4 ft triangle) to get the most out of them, ears between tweeters and mids. I'm using the room lengthwise and they are about 3 ft off the side walls and 3.5ft off the back wall. I have 8 4x2ft panels I built for acoustic treatment in the mix as well.

I'm wondering how others have set these and other similar W series Wharfies' up, what amps you're using, etc. Do others find there is really only one way they sound good or is that a limitation of my small room with these huge speakers?

Thanks to anyone who wants to chime in, I'll post some pictures tomorrow

Matt

Sorry for posting a second time... I can't seem to find new threads I'm starting
 
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Very interested in this thread. I've heard the tweeters should be at eye level. My W70B's are currently just about 4" off the floor and right up against the wall. Small room, fantastic soundstage and performance. Wondering if it could get better. Really hard to imagine that.
 
Yes, Gang-Twanger, our resident wharfaholic, also recommends that you try the W70s on their sides. Most speakers sound best when the tweeter is at ear level.

Matt is a technical wiz at positioning and room treatment. I have visited his place a few times and was amazed at the results he got from his gear. Haven't seen it lately since he moved.

Based on the results I saw with Matt's gear, I am sure it can get better. He showed me what you can do if you focus on what you have. I went the other route and upgraded like crazy for a few years. I've settled down somewhat, mainly upgrading my vinyl sources.
 
My room is not that much bigger at 10' X 17', I have my oil capped w90s (and right now SFB/3's) along the long wall. My listening spot is an equilateral triangle about 7ft away from the speakers - there's an oc703 panel directly behind my head on the back wall. My floor is wall to wall carpet over concrete. My couch is pretty low, and I've found I get the best sound with the speakers on the floor. I am currently running a Marantz 8b and Juicy Music Blueberry extreme preamp, and have to say this combo is "the ****" as the kids say. I've tried a lot of speakers in this room, and to my ears the w90s came out on top - they loaded the room perfectly and were/are highly addictive! Maybe you need BIGGER speakers?! :smoke:
 
Your room is similar to mine in dimension so I look forward to your impressions. Have 2 pairs of 70's to try once recapped.

I'll be using a Dynaco st70 tube amp and pas2 pre with mine as that was the intent of tracking down the 70's. I do have w35's that are fantastic in there with a subwoofer.

Also, one of my pairs included the Wharfedale stands so I will work with that height.
 
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Hi Guys,

Sorry about neglecting this thread! With the updates to AK I couldn't find the original thread I started the day after making it. I thought maybe it was some glitch and remade it with this one. Of course I found the other one afterwards and forgot this one... So here is the link to the identical thread where this topic was getting discussed over the last week or two. There have been some great contributions as well as the details of my system are all on that page except for one update. The right speaker is now on its side. I really found it noticeable that the tweeters and mids were not mirrored in my close listening environment so I had to rotate it to put tweeters on the inside. I'll try to get a picture up soon.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....0-and-similar-experience.684522/#post-9139855

El Cavano - Hows your soundstage 3 dimensionality? I found moving my speakers 3-4 ft off the back wall made a massive difference to soundstage depth. I didn't get what people were talking about with "holographic sound stage" coming from Wharfies W series until I did this and had the "aha" moment. This being said the whole point in this forum is to find how different people have maximized their speakers because I think room plays into these Wharfedales hugely. I would imagine a lot of people will have them in different configurations. I can say for certain going from one room to the next I would be changing mine drastically. If you haven't tried them off the wall yet and can afford the footprint in your room I'd highly recommend trying it.

Byron - Thank you for the kind words, I've learned lots from your experience and wisdom too. I'll be in Ottawa this weekend, feel free to PM me if you have some time, I'd love to catch up and see what you've been up to!

Crestwood - I'm sure those sound great, I wish I had a set of W90's as well even though I've told myself that for my next speaker I'm downsizing... W90's and Altec Model 14's are on my must have list.

an interesting note: it seems everybody keeps these on the ground or very low, mine sit on 1.8ft stands and I'm on a low couch.

I don't know if moderators can merge these two threads? It would probably make things easier, if someone knows who to ask I don't mind doing it!

Cheers

Matt
 
Very-true about placement. First off, I aim my W*0 models directly at me. The amount of toe'in has to be dead-on with the cone-driven models in that series. The interesting thing is, Briggs and Co. had spent the '50's designing omni-directional speakers with upfiring tweeters (and in some cases, even upfiring midwoofers). They had a FEW that were direct-radiating, but their top models were all omni-directional, and I think this had an effect on the W*0 series as a whole, at least the cone-driven models. The W90's and W60's both require dead-on distancing, measured from the left and right edges of the baffle, if you really want to hear that 3D imaging. The wide baffle makes it necessary, but the Super 3 and Super 5 both seem to be best either straight-on or straight-off, and nothing in between.

But I agree about the room. Apparently, with the W90 at least, the room affects the frequency response more than any tone control adjustments. The punch and immediacy of the bass is especially-dependent on room-placement, as is the clarity, coherency, and linearity. And for the direct-radiating Wharfedale models, the tweeter performance and dispersion is dependent on the tweeter's height in relation to the listener's ears, essentially, putting the tweeter and the ears at the SAME height.
 
I use my Rosedales, (which are 3 element versions of the W70E, with really high W.ife A.cceptance F.actor) flanking my 50 inch plasma. When I want that movie experience, or streaming music, the TV speakers are muted, and I power up a Pioneer SX3600 (Thrift store find, no issues for $19.95) and it is soooo much better for dialog and the music soundtrack.

They sit on hockey pucks and the tweets are just about head level when we're on the couch. Love the look, love the sound. Funny thing is, the seller thought they were W60, and didn't care for them, so that started me on Warfies. Now if I could only get a pair of Dovedales......
 
I've been reading AK for a long time but my new (to me) W70s made me sign up and post... :)

I found these locally for $80. They have some dings on the outside but they're in good shape over all and the guts (not alnico) were pristine. I had never head them before but I know the Wharfedale reputation and I thought they had a good WAF. They sounded decent on the little sherwood receiver the seller let me try them on, so I took a chance.

IMG_3802.JPG

I have mine in a decent sized living room with an open back wall, polished concrete floor and wood paneling. Just a big wrap around leather couch in here for now and a fireplace/bookshelf on the opposite wall.
I have them on the floor, about 6' apart, firing straight at the open back wall, and about 8" off the wall.

Suffice it to say, I'm very pleased... Well maybe that doesn't suffice. These speakers may have everything I've been looking for in speakers. I've been listening to various B&Ws for years, and like these significantly better. They also blow away my dad's Klipsch Belles and his friends Klipschorns, and I like them better than a mint pair of Altec Valencias (a little clearer with better highs) a buddy has... Although that one is pretty close. In fact they have me listening to music differently. Right now I'm listening to Roy Gaines "The First TB Album" and its like he's standing in front of me. These speakers disappear better than anything other than some high end planers I've heard.

IMG_3981.JPG

Debating making some stands for them.

Not sure if this is a hijak... But now my concern is getting all out of them I can... Right now they're playing off of a Denon Dra-25 Receiver that was supposed to be temporary... But I also got a $20 BIC 960 and the Denon has a Phono Stage. The origanal plan was for a hi-bred hifi/theater system with my B&K Ref20+ and a pair of Pass F5 amps I'm building driving the wharfies and a pair of B&W bookshelfs for surround. But now I'm wondering if I need to go tube amp/receiver to get the most out of the speakers. I've owned the Denon since it was new and therefore I feel like it's the weak link, (lots of loud nonsense has been played on that unit), there are plenty of vintages Sansui's and Pioneers around but the prices here in Austin are a little insane right now (everything seems to start at $250), and would get something like that if I thought the sound would be significantly better than the Denon, but I have a feeling it might be marginal at best.
There are a few tube amps around here too but they're insanely expensive.
So I'm debating finishing the Pass F5s or and building a phono stage for the Ref20 or?...
 
As I was writing that post I thought I'd try some "stands" under the w70s just to see what happened. My daughter's chairs are a little under 1' tall which is a little higher than I would like but it places the tweeters about at seated ear level...

It adds quite a bit more of the 3rd dimension to the sound stage. Just more in every direction... But there's obviously a cost and that comes from a loss of warmth and low end detail at least in my room. And it makes them a little more directional. If you move out of the center you feel like you're only hearing mono...
Low WAF so I ditched them for now, but I wonder what the sound would be like with something lower like between that and the original stands.
 
My W70Ds are in my garage system, it's where I do most of my listening. It's 30 x 30 feet with a high peaked ceiling and I don't have to worry about WAF. I've got them 5 feet apart, 2 feet from the back wall, angled slightly outside the the listening position, which is a couch about 7 feet away. There's a rug between the speakers and the couch and I have the speakers sitting on two boxes of catalogs each that raise the up 14". I've found that you lose bass if you don't have them sitting on something substantial and that pointing the speakers right at the listener made the vocals seem a little too forward for me. This setup gives me a nice sound stage that has height, width and depth. To me these speakers just sound right, tight accurate bass, smooth mids, and a nice airy high end that doesn't get fatiguing even after hours of listening.
 
I have a pair of W70D MKII that I have had for a while. I get great imaging from these while they are on the floor 4 ft apart, 1 foot from the back wall, slightly toed in. I sit 9 feet away in the center. I have also tried these on stands that are 12 in high and that works well too. I do agree with the trade-offs that bigaltx mentions above, they are brighter and more direct when raised. My only complaint with these is that the bass is a little boxy and percussive. Like it is too tight and it does give me a little headache at higher volumes. Has anyone else noticed this and found a mod that will improve the smoothness of the low end. Like additional insulation in the cabinet, or replacing the 12" woofer? Just wondering?
Thanks,
 
I have about 25w driving them. I do most of my listening in the lower 1/4 of the dial. I don't like them as much at higher volumes, but I wasn't sure if it was my Receiver or the speakers. There flaws in my system that makes it a little hard to isolate where the issue is.

But for me, it's not specific to bass. In my environment, the detail goes away at higher volumes.
 
I have not had them recapped. I have not noticed any issues or anomalies with the sound, so I have not gone down that road. I listen to Jazz and vintage lps on them and am powering them with a 90 WPC Yamaha AVR and a vintage Fisher 400 . What type of improvement should I expect from a recap in this case?

Thanks,
 
The original caps in these are electrolytic caps that by now have dried up and are probably way out of spec. This means the crossover frequencies are not where they are supposed to be, and will not sound like they did when they left the factory. When I first got mine they sounded muddy, mid heavy with flabby bass. I threw some Dayton film caps I had on hand in them and the difference was night and day. The mids were tamed, the highs opened up and the bass was accurate. I ran them for a couple of weeks to let the caps break in, them did some serious listening. My only real complaint was that the highs had a touch of graininess to them and the mids were a little dry. The Dayton films are OK but not the best so I did some digging. I read GangTwangers post on using paper in oil caps in these, so I snagged some Russian KBG paper in oil caps off of the auction site for the tweeter caps and some Clarity PX film caps for the low end. After about a month or so of break in the highs are sweet, the mids have a nice warmth and the bass is very accurate. One of these days I'll probably try some paper in oils for the low end. So recapping can make a huge difference, the W70Ds should be a killer match with the Fisher 400. If you do recap them make sure to Deoxit the L pads and check driver cones for binding / rubbing while you have them opened up.
 
Thanks, I will look into the recap. I do not have soldering experience but am willing to try it. It looks like just 2 caps in each crossover. I appreciate the suggestion to detox it the Lpads, since they do not work correctly. I tried to do this when I first got them open to replace a couple of the drivers (with exact vintage replacements). I did not see an opening to get the dioxin into the pot. Any advice on where to how to get the spray it without damaging them?

Thanks,
 
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Soldering is not hard it just takes some practice. Get some #20 solid wire cut into some 2-3" lengths, twist two ends together solder then unsolder till you get the hang of it. Usually Lpads have a couple of small indentations on the back cap that are open. They aren't big but you can enough Deoxit through them to clean them.
 
I had a set of W90E's for a couple of years. I went to Home Depot and bought some tapered legs and braces to attach them to the cabinets. I also put dynamat between the corner braces and bottom of the speakers. This raised the speakers about 7-8 inches of the floor. Dramatic improvement in quality of sound. Hope this helps.
 
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