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WHARFEDALE W70's PIO CAPS

Ghonk

Ghonk

GREG
Going to order a pair of 4uf PIO caps for my Wharfedale W70's.
Listed as (4.00uf and 3.99uf) 200V.+/= 10%
Any reason these wouldn't work?
I assume the reading would be close enough,would this be a problem?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-DUO...634822?hash=item3ac5342fc6:g:KJEAAOSwPhdVEAbp

They also have another type.RED ones
Both listed as (4.00uf) 630V +/= 10%
Would this be a better choice,one problem is they are taking bids on these and i might miss out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4uF-630V-MA...938563?hash=item51edbd0443:g:GyQAAOxyTkJSO~4X

I want to buy from this seller because the shipping time from europe is faster then some other sellers.
 
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I've used both. As long as they're within 20% of stated value, it should be fine. I've found those caps to range in value between 3.99uF and 4.0uF. Pretty darned tight.

I don't like 'em, they're still on my storage shelf. To my ears, they make the tweeters sound diffused, muted. My sparkly highs go away, I don't like that.

Biggles
 
drbiggles said:
I've used both. As long as they're within 20% of stated value, it should be fine. I've found those caps to range in value between 3.99uF and 4.0uF. Pretty darned tight.

I don't like 'em, they're still on my storage shelf. To my ears, they make the tweeters sound diffused, muted. My sparkly highs go away, I don't like that.

Biggles
Click to expand...

Really,i'm a little shocked to hear that,i thought the consensus was PIO is the way to go on the Wharfedales.
I read that at least a couple people say other caps,might have been poly, made the tweeters sound harsh.

Well i don't know what the hell to do now,if i was switching them out myself it wouldn't be that big of a deal,i could just switch to something else if i didn't like the PIO.
But someone is recapping them for me.

GO CUBS
 
One mans "harsh" is another mans "sparkle" - they are certainly cheap enough to try without to big of a loss if they aren't your cup of tea.

Not sure if these are the same as the "KGB" PIO caps I put in my w90's, they do look similar. For the record - I LOVE THEM. (No offense to sir biggles!)

:biggrin:
 
Well, how do you think I feel???? I've got over a hundred bucks in PIO caps in my shop that I purchased for projects. I read the same things you have, that's why I bought them and tried them out.

Here's what AK member Retrovert had recently to say about vintage PIO caps:

PIO (Paper in Oil) capacitors, such as those used in the Bozak crossovers, are notorious for high ESR when new and increased ESR over time. While PIO's have a reputation as having magical mojo, and, indeed, a near cult following, this is because they add second-order harmonics which "mellow" the sound. So liking PIO capacitor sound just means someone likes distortion. It's ok to like distortion (guitar amplifiers are distortion in a box that sounds wonderful), but call it what it is.

It all comes down to what flavor you prefer. It's not good or bad. But I do not like them. My open airy sparkle simply goes away.

If one has a tweeter that sounds harsh or painful, there is a modern solution for that. These old tweeters have spikes that cause you to cringe, it's pretty typical with paper coned tweeters. The solution is to make a Zobel network for it. It flattens out the response, smooths all the spikes. That's not the technical explanation, just how I see it. The Wharfedale Alnico Super 3 tweeter has a spike around 9000Hz. I'm right now, as we speak, putting together a Zobel network for the Super 3. This is going to go with my Stephens Trusonic project. I can hardly wait!

Biggles
 
Sounds like a sweet project Biggles! I'd love to hear a "Zobel"-ed super 3. I guess I just like distortion then. I'm a guitar player, so naturally I love guitar amplifiers and the sound of overdriven tubes. I like a more mellow sound which would explain why I like PIO's. Interestingly I found the best amp match for my PIO loaded W90s is my restored Marantz 8b which has much more sparkle in the high end (compared to other tube amps I've tried) - the mellow PIO distortion plus the brighter 8b character seems to be just right to my ears.
 
Crestwood,

When my Trusonic post rolls by, the added tweeter network will be included. Yup, many many many people love the rolled off highs. I thought I would too, I gave it a shot.

MmMmmMm, Marantz 8b.

Biggles
 
Ghonk,

Excellent. You'll never know until you try and this is exactly how you do it. Congratulations and I can hardly wait to hear what you think.

Biggles
 
I ran Russian PIOs in my W70Ds for about a year or so, sounded better than the Clarity PXs that they replaced. Recently changed out the PIOs for Mundorf Evo Aluminum Oils. I'm really liking the Mundorfs even though I don't think they're full broken in yet. They are smooth, but give more detail than the PIOs, to me they really let the emotion of the music come through, if that makes any sense.
 
bigaltx24 said:
I ran Russian PIOs in my W70Ds for about a year or so, sounded better than the Clarity PXs that they replaced. Recently changed out the PIOs for Mundorf Evo Aluminum Oils. I'm really liking the Mundorfs even though I don't think they're full broken in yet. They are smooth, but give more detail than the PIOs, to me they really let the emotion of the music come through, if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments on the PIO, Clarity PX, and Mundorf EVO Aluminum Oil caps. I already have some PIO's and Auricaps, for bypass use. But, I keep going back and forth on whether to use Clarity ESA's or Mundorf Evo Aluminum Oils, for the main caps, with my Acoustic Research AR90 recap. So, your comments on the Mundorf's sound qualities are helpful. Especially since I probably won't be able to swing Mundorf Supremes. That makes your EVO Oil comments even more useful! :biggrin: The only other boutique cap I was considering were Audyn Plus caps. They're priced between the EVO Oils and Supremes. The Plus get very good ratings too. But, I 'guess' any cap would be better than the 30 year old NPE's, in there now! :rolleyes:
 
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I've used the Clarity ESAs before on a pair of OLAs and a pair of Snell K2s. They sounded excellent on both pairs, in a direct comparison with the Evo's, I think it would probably come down to a matter of personal preference.
 
bigaltx24 said:
I've used the Clarity ESAs before on a pair of OLAs and a pair of Snell K2s. They sounded excellent on both pairs, in a direct comparison with the Evo's, I think it would probably come down to a matter of personal preference.
Click to expand...

I can get the EVO Oils and the Clarity ESA's for about the same prices. At least for the 24uF that I need for the upper midrange dome. So, it's confusing trying to decide, on which brand to use. But, I did like your 'smooth and detailed' description of the EVO Oils. That's a bit of a help!
 
Ha! Those look similar to the ones I got from Bulgaria as well. And the shipping time was similar. Pretty crazy, huh?

Biggles
 
Drugolf,

OooOo, I think I've got 4 of those too. I should make mine go away, can't think of a use for them now. Dangit.

Biggles
 
[I said:
PIO (Paper in Oil) capacitors, such as those used in the Bozak crossovers, are notorious for high ESR when new and increased ESR over time. While PIO's have a reputation as having magical mojo, and, indeed, a near cult following, this is because they add second-order harmonics which "mellow" the sound. So liking PIO capacitor sound just means someone likes distortion. It's ok to like distortion (guitar amplifiers are distortion in a box that sounds wonderful), but call it what it is.
[/I]
It all comes down to what flavor you prefer. It's not good or bad. But I do not like them. My open airy sparkle simply goes away.
Click to expand...

This would be VERY, VERY, VEEEERRRRRYYYYY good info stuck up top as a sticky somewhere!!!

Just so it's there so as folks, newbies like me specifically, understand what these components offer to the experience

"No judgement, no good, no bad, just here's what is happening, try it out & see if it's for you."
 
Goggle1824 said:
This would be VERY, VERY, VEEEERRRRRYYYYY good info stuck up top as a sticky somewhere!!!

Just so it's there so as folks, newbies like me specifically, understand what these components offer to the experience

"No judgement, no good, no bad, just here's what is happening, try it out & see if it's for you."
Click to expand...

Annnnnnd, that's why it's up there. A few years ago while I was doing my related projects and tons of reading, there was only one side to the story. Get the oil caps, they're magic. Modern poly caps are bad. It is nice to get both sides of the story so you can make an informed decision based on your tastes. And if you haven't developed your palate yet, it's still an inexpensive trial.

Biggles
 
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