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What actually makes 2 different solid state receivers sound different?

efedude77

efedude77

New Member
Hello everyone, I'm rather new to audio and I always see people describing different receivers and how they sound. Saying things such as "oh this receiver has a rich warm sound" or "I don't like that one, it has a colder sound". But what actually makes solid state receivers sound different as far as internals? I'm more of a mechanics guy but I'm still very curious about electronic components.


Thanks for all the help!
 
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Every circuit sounds a bit different- things such as the amount of negative feedback used, input and output impedance, parts selection, even operating voltage and temperature can all have sonic impacts.

Solid state simply means there aren't vacuum tubes involved- there's still a lot of variation in circuit design!
 
botrytis said:
There is some minor variations with amps but it is subtle compared to changing pre-amps.
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Are you comparing ss power amps of a similar price range, power and design? There are power amps rated at 1000 watts that sell for 100 bucks,and others selling for 20 times that much.
 
botrytis said:
I am not stupid, OK. Similar price range. JEEZ some people just like to argue.
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OK, we have confirmed your intelligence, if not your composure. Still you missed at least part of my question, that being design, class, architecture etc. And BTW, a lot of us come here to argue, it is what makes AK a lively and interesting place, but in this case that was not my intention, but just to clarify as I simply don't know as much as a lot of people on here..
 
botrytis said:
Try different amps on the same Pre. I have. Even of different wattage's and type (A/B vs A vs D). It is more to do with how the amp matches the pre than the amp type (talking all class A here). For example I had an H-K 825 pre-amp that overloaded the inputs on all but my H-K Citation 24. The pre-amp outputs voltage was so high, that it didn't sound good with any other amp. On the other hand my Kenwood Basic C1 sounds good with most amps.

When I mean design - I mean what is the pr's output voltage, etc. That determines what matches or not.
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Well there, I learned something.. :) Probably why I have not really noticed much discernible difference when running with my preamp and without it. My 700C Kenwood preamp was indeed built specifically for the 700M. I had always figured a good preamp was just that, and didn't get the importance of the pairing match up as that vital.
 
Other than the actual input signal, and speakers--let's assume a clean and accurate source signal, and leave speakers out of this (due to all of the compounding issues of room/gear compatibility, design/placement and personal preferences)--the preamp stage has the greatest impact on the "sonic signature" of a system. Different circuit topology and component selection certainly does impact the "sound" of a preamp. Certain designers/manufacturers even "voice" their gear to a "house" or "signature" sound that they are known for. Some are known to be "warm", "smooth" or "laid back", while others are known to be "dark", "clinical" or "sterile", and all sorts of descriptions in-between. There are also the "compatibility" factors (like input/output voltages and impedance matching), but those are less common when pairing up gear of a given vintage/era, and should be non-existent in a receiver or integrated amp where the preamp stage was specifically designed to operate with the internal amp.

In theory, a quality amplifier should only do one thing--take the small signal from the preamplifier stage and "amplify" it to a useable output level for the speakers; however, we all know that is not 100% true (even under the best of circumstances). All amplifiers have a "pre-driver stage", and there can be "sonic artifacts" introduced at that point, as well as other limiting factors in the amplifier circuit.
 
Even differences in the way the parts have aged in the gear can be heard. One of two identical receivers may have been in the garage system, and will sound worse just because of the way it has been treated. I can't believe someone with THAT many posts and claiming intelligence would, at this point be asking a beginner question.
 
I'm with Dave on this. I have heard differences in the way amps sound, but unless the amp topologies are radically different, like a normal amp and a feed forward amp, the differences are subtle. The preamps have a larger effect, because of the signal processing, and components used. Many preamps have opamps in the circuits and these have a huge impact on the sound. The 2 biggest factors I have found that affect the sound are opamps and capacitors. Esoteric caps are not what I mean here, I find that if tantalum caps are used in the signal path they have a horrible effect on the sound. Change them to normal electrolytic caps and the sound is vastly improved. They were mostly used in older equipment because they were smaller than the electrolytics available at the time.
 
One reads of considerable differences in certain major SS designs. For example, in how the transistors are operated - Class A amps vs AB vs. Class D vs. S-Master. Overall circuit design - low feedback vs high feedback. Then there are different types of transistors - MOSFET, Bipolar, V-FETs just off the top of my head.

Sensitive ears claim to be able to recognize the differences. My experience is pretty limited to bipolar Class AB.

One area were I often I hear a difference is between amps with output coupling capacitors and those with direct coupling. The latter will sound rolled off at the top end. Really good design and fresh capacitors can mitigate that,

How much is marketing hype and how much is engineers really striving for a better amp depends on how cynical one is.
 
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Level of noise floor and power supply rejection. This is where most AB amps are fine and many preamps are not so great, the preamps work with smaller signals which are more prone to noise, all else equal.

Level of distortion introduced, and its spectrum. THD and IMD matter. Transistors are inherently nonlinear, the amp circuit must correct that. Doing this well is possible, 10ppm distortion is possible. A lot of amps still make closer to 1000ppm distortion (0.1%) which is a shame. It's not even expensive to do better.

Amps with poor stability margin can sound worse, if they are prone to brief bursts of ultrasonic oscillation.

Most coupling caps are fine, even electrolytics sound fine to me. But tantalum caps are awful and should be replaced. I've heard the improvement. EDIT: tants are fine as power supply bypass caps, just not as signal coupling caps.
 
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Been thinking about this myself lately, as I'm considering upgrading the power amp in my main system. Currently running an Emotiva "stack" - UPA-200 amp, USP-1 preamp, XDA-2 DAC. Feeding KEF 107 speakers (300W max, 90 dB). Looking for something with as much musicality as possible, but also high power. Would it be at all appropriate to use a class A amp with these (say, 30 watts)? Or better to stick with higher power? These will also be for home theater use, so I need bass...which probably means I need power. Also not crazy about how hot Class A amps supposedly get...the search continues...any recommendations welcome! Looking into McCormack, Pass, Threshold...whatever I can afford (under $1k) with some power and good musicality.
 
It's 90% in the circuit design. It's what sound the engineers were going for when they designed it. The other 10% is part types used, component aging, board layout, line voltage being higher on vintage equipment.

I've seen receivers with horrible parts and cheap build quality sound great because they were designed great. Then I've seen equipment that looks great with nice high quality parts sound cheap.

Usually the equipment that was designed good will spring for the nice parts, but you don't need great parts for great sound.
 
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