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What does it take to get your speakers "going?"

Ds2000

Ds2000

The fi must be higher.
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Now I am not speaking of efficiency, at least strictly. It's more a question of at what volume point do your speaks really open up to the full frequency response they're capable of? For me, I have the Pioneer TZ-9LTD, 4 ohms, probably 87-88db. I use an amp rated at 100w into 4 ohms. Surprisingly it doesn't take much to realize a pretty linear response, likely 1-2w continuous based on the actual volume I hear at my listening position about 12' from the speakers. Put plainly, conversation can still occur without all the "what" or "could you repeat that"?
 
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I find with my epicure 201s that about 3 or 4 watts really brings them into the happy zone.

Larger speakers seem to need more breathing room
 
I don't really know of any volume level for my speakers where significant portions of the frequency response would be missing, not unless we are talking about a volume level so low that you have to put your ear up to the speaker. But really though in most cases where the context of the situation doesn't allow for a reasonable listening level, I'm likely to just use headphones instead. When I think about getting the speakers "going" though, it always comes down to being able to not just hear the music but being able to feel it also - something you never get from even the best headphones. For me that usually comes into play at about 10-20 watts (continuous).
 
Running my Altec Segovia's with my KA-8300, they sound phenomenal at 15 watts, (looking at the meters). Note: the room acoustics are horrid, and if I had a more
suitable room, I'd expect different results.
 
When I'm seeing between 2 and 20 watts on my MC6600 power meters, my JBL 4435s are playing about as loudly as I want to listen to them, without discomfort.
 
Chris Brown said:
I don't really know of any volume level for my speakers where significant portions of the frequency response would be missing, not unless we are talking about a volume level so low that you have to put your ear up to the speaker. But really though in most cases where the context of the situation doesn't allow for a reasonable listening level, I'm likely to just use headphones instead. When I think about getting the speakers "going" though, it always comes down to being able to not just hear the music but being able to feel it also - something you never get from even the best headphones. For me that usually comes into play at about 10-20 watts (continuous).
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I've always wondered about statements such as this because of the Fletcher-Munson effect, which is a question of perception inherent with the discussion, not a question of what a speaker may be "missing" at low volume.
 
My JBL L200's never get to 2 wpc these days. I am not sure I understand the question tho. Does the OP mean when is the freq response the best when using some sort of mic setup that shows what they are doing on a chart or just what sounds good to our ears? I have no such testing equip and it seems to me that what simply sounds good would vary depending on deafness at certain frequencies, room acoustics personal preferences, threshold of pain etc.
 
Alobar said:
My JBL L200's never get to 2 wpc these days. I am not sure I understand the question tho. Does the OP mean when is the freq response the best when using some sort of mic setup that shows what they are doing on a chart or just what sounds good to our ears? I have no such testing equip and it seems to me that what simply sounds good would vary depending on deafness at certain frequencies, room acoustics personal preferences, threshold of pain etc.
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It's more a question of when the "sweet spot" really begins to occur. Pardon that kind of vagueness, but it is going to be different for every listener, due to music choices, hearing sensitivity, speaker model and design, amp type, room, etc.
It certainly isn't a scientific query, more of a when does your speaker really open up and start to let that "magic" out, which each of us has painstakingly set up our treasured systems to attempt to re-create and enjoy.
 
Ds2000 said:
It's more a question of when the "sweet spot" really begins to occur. Pardon that kind of vagueness, but it is going to be different for every listener, due to music choices, hearing sensitivity, speaker model and design, amp type, room, etc.
It certainly isn't a scientific query, more of a when does your speaker really open up and start to let that "magic" out, which each of us has painstakingly set up our treasured systems to attempt to re-create and enjoy.
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Yes this is what I was thinking you meant as well. My speakers are quite old, 42 years and at the time sensitivity was measured in feet, 15 feet actually so these are 80db @ 15 feet with 1 watt. I am guessing that 80% of my listening is around 1/4 watt if how I am reading my power level meters is correct. Sometimes if my wife is out for the evening and I have had a drink or 2 I will bump them up a little past, for short durations but I am wanting to preserve my fairly good hearing for at least the next 20 years (I am 61 now).I never run them at 1.7wpc nowadays except for brief moments although seems like that was about what they ran at all the time when I was in my 20's.
Here is what my power levels are (set to -20db range) and I am roughly 15 feet away so since 1 watt is 80db I am somewhat less than 80 but the sound is crisp and seems to satisfy! Seems like I am wasting this 170 wpc amp tho, but I believe the 15" woofers are controlled tighter with more power available but I could be wrong. Something with this amp does improve bass however with my old JBL's.
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Alobar said:
Yes this is what I was thinking you meant as well. My speakers are quite old, 42 years and at the time sensitivity was measured in feet, 15 feet actually so these are 80db @ 15 feet with 1 watt. I am guessing that 80% of my listening is around 1/4 watt if how I am reading my power level meters is correct. Sometimes if my wife is out for the evening and I have had a drink or 2 I will bump them up a little past, for short durations but I am wanting to preserve my fairly good hearing for at least the next 20 years (I am 61 now).I never run them at 1.7wpc nowadays except for brief moments although seems like that was about what they ran at all the time when I was in my 20's.
Here is what my power levels are (set to -20db range) and I am roughly 15 feet away so since 1 watt is 80db I am somewhat less than 80 but the sound is crisp and seems to satisfy! Seems like I am wasting this 170 wpc amp tho, but I believe the 15" woofers are controlled tighter with more power available but I could be wrong. Something with this amp does improve bass however with my old JBL's.
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Beautiful amp, by the way.
I suppose I don't much pass the 10 watt mark, and only with the most dynamic classical pieces involving fff with a full orchestra and large organ in the mix. On my smaller amp, that's making it work some, but on the bigger mono amps, well it's a drop in the bucket. Funny thing though, the bigger 600w amps have a sense of ease and an "air" around them, along with a far better grip on the bass region, which the smaller amp does not. So I don't think your 170w/pc is wasted, it's just adding into that perceivable "space" heard around the speakers, and the bass control you mentioned. Again, that's a very nice setup!
 
Yup ... it's not about watts, its about SPLs ... my system "suspends reality" at 95db at the primary listening position with excursions to around 102db on peaks. That's the point at which the room feels saturated and you get that good "live vibe" like the band is in the room with you. Matter of fact, I just had Norah Jones sitting in my lap crooning in my ear ... <G>

Proof positive though that tube watts are bigger than solid state. What took me a couple hundred wpc with the McIntosh MC2205 now takes around 70wpc with my custom Latino ST120.

PS ... I cheat ... I have expansion, bass synth, and spatial enhancement going full time to achieve the "urp ... enough for me!" effects I'm going for.
 
Chances are your speakers are most accurate at quite low power.

That you feel the beat may be entirely more pleasing but it's probably not more accurate from a technical standpoint.

But, FWIW, the garage system starts to pick up at around a kilowatt or two. The house systems a hundred or two or several...depending.
 
My Khorns awake for me when the level is high enough that I can hear the bass, which begins at a fairly low level. However, there seem to be multiple levels of consciousness. Sometimes that first level is all I want, where conversation is not impeded. A level where the speakers are having morning coffee, but not loud enough to reach sKiZo's reality suspension, which is what I think was the OP's target. However, there seems to me another level between those two which still isn't loud enough to fully believe, yet has that touch of truth with speaker fully awake. Afterwards come loud enough to recreate space and an event with as much realism as my system will offer. Then there's just too damn loud for comfort for me, which may be closer in many ways to what is too often encountered at some venues. Could I push it harder with a bigger amp? Doubtlessly. Do I want to? No.

So that's four levels, and I spend most my listening time at 2 or 3. After you tire of pushing high levels with the Khorns just because they do it effortlessly, then you go back to more enjoyable levels, in my experience, with those levels being a bit higher, for me, than was the case with Fortes.
 
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