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What does one miss without a center channel speaker ?

Sparzard

Sparzard

New Member
Hello,

Preface: I have invested very little into this set-up, the only cost to me was the stylus and pre-amp...so far...

Recently I have setup playing to the point where I hear music, equip listed below.... All good so far but wondering how much further I should/need to take my set-up & the question at large is if I don't match to my speakers/sub/ center channel do I lose sound quality in other speakers or maybe not working together in sync as one would hope? Guidance on center channel and Sub to pair with equipment...?

Turntable - Hitachi PS-58 w/ Grado Green
Receiver - Yamaha RX-V681
Pre-Amp - Parasound Zphono XRM
Speakers - Klipsch Reference R-610F (Pair)
 
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You generally don't need a Sub and center with a decent 2 channel system for music.
However,if you want to play surround media (concert videos, movies, etc) you might want to expand to 5.1 mode,
and add a second pair of Klipsch Reference R-610F speakers, add a 10 or 12 inch subwoofer, and maybe a comparable Klipsch center
(not required if you turn off center in your receiver config screen).

I looked - your Yamaha RX-V681 receiver is a multichannel unit - a 7.2-channel 4K Ultra HD network AV receiver features Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™ object based surround sound. The free MusicCast Controller app makes it easy to access your music library and streaming music services. Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth® and AirPlay® wireless connectivity, a phono input for vinyl playback and Zone 2 audio provide added system versatility.
But you can run it as a 4.1 system just as easily
(front main pair, side surround pair, and a subwoofer, no 5th center needed)
 
hjames said:
You generally don't need a Sub and center with a decent 2 channel system for music.
However,if you want to play surround media (concert videos, movies, etc) you might want to expand to 5.1 mode,
and add a second pair of Klipsch Reference R-610F speakers, add a 10 or 12 inch subwoofer, and maybe a comparable Klipsch center
(not required if you turn off center in your receiver config screen).

I looked - your Yamaha RX-V681 receiver is a multichannel unit - a 7.2-channel 4K Ultra HD network AV receiver features Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™ object based surround sound. The free MusicCast Controller app makes it easy to access your music library and streaming music services. Wi-Fi®, Bluetooth® and AirPlay® wireless connectivity, a phono input for vinyl playback and Zone 2 audio provide added system versatility.
But you can run it as a 4.1 system just as easily
(front main pair, side surround pair, and a subwoofer, no 5th center needed)
Click to expand...
You can actually use that receiver as a 4.0 system too. Just set the speakers to “large” in the menu and the job is done. It should also be possible to bi-amp the mains. My Yamaha is similar and allows that possibility, using the front height outputs.
 
Understand a lot of it has to do with what media you are playing.
Like I said before - stereo music reproduction doesn't need a center or sub.
Those classic old Hollywood films shown above are not known for having multichannel sound -
so no need for all that surround sound stuff.
I didn't need it for some of the old films I've been watching lately.
But if you are interested in newer films that DO have multichannel content,
you might want a playback system that better matches what's on the disc.
 
While you may not need a sub, you may be pleasantly surprised at the results.
There are several power models out there that don't cost a ton and perform well.
 
Never needed or wanted anything more than my two channel stereo sound. Quality components and placement are all I've ever wanted. I've heard both ways and don't see the point in anything else
 
Both Cheyenne Autumn and Ben Hur were shot on 65mm and released as road shows on 70mm with a 6 channel magnetic sound track strips (5 channels behind the screen and a surround channel) on the sides of the film (thus 70mm). IME in home use the 2 channel stereo mix and use of a phantom center does the job of reproducing the sound that originally came from behind the screen very well. We all rely on our 2 channel stereo rigs to anchor music in it's proper place in the soundstage, the same goes for dialogue in multi channel movies. If you've a hole in the middle it's not because of missing information but poor speakers or set up.

Now if you want surround sound you of course need rear speakers but I maintain a center speaker is unneeded and in some cases may give inferior sound---if you're using Altec VOTs for left and right you can't just plunk some small direct radiator in the middle without degrading the sound. And many center speakers have rough response and crazy directivity because of the need to place them in a visually pleasing manner. Such as those that have a horizontal array with a tweeter between two woofers.

Many 1950s and 60s movies shot in multi channel stereo often have the dialogue moving back and forth across the screen as characters move, rather than anchoring all dialogue in the middle as is modern practice. This is kind'a cool and is prominent in 20th Century Fox movies such as Demetrius and the Gladiators and Cleopatra.
 
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Center Channels can be useful if your mains are set far apart. I was around some nice audio equipment as a kid. Several of my parents friends had some nice tube systems. I can remember seeing a center Channel speaker in one of those systems. The room was pretty large and the main speakers were set close to the side walls. The center channel speaker was sitting on the fireplace mantle.
 
IMO/E it depends on what the source material is. For many years I used a phantom center channel and thought that was all I needed. I noticed that with some movies the dialog was indistinct and sometimes unintelligible. Adding a center channel speaker cured that problem. However, that unearthed a different problem. The Magnepan MMG-C that I added has little to no response below 100Hz. This resulted in a diminished image size and a lack of low end. There is sometimes a lot of low frequency sounds in the CC. The problem was solved by adding a modest 8" powered subwoofer to the center channel.

For two channel stereo the HT pre/pro, CC speaker and subwoofer and surround speakers with their subs are not turned on.

If the source is two channel that's how it gets played. If the source is MC, that's how it gets played.
 
If you have large main speakers that present a Huge Wall of Sound, no CC is needed as the others have stated and just like this:
 
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If you have source material that has encoded center and surround channels and don't set your player and amplifier to two channels, you're not going to hear the signals for those extra channels if the speakers aren't there. If you do put the settings to two channels, the signal should image like any other stereo sound, and the result will depend on your speaker placement.

With stereo signals, extra channels shouldn't produce any output at all unless you use one of the simulation modes.

Some vintage amplifiers used to have speaker terminals for a center channel that enabled blending to deal with early stereo records that sometimes had unrealistically excess separation. Haven't seen anything like that on new equipment in many years.
 
I don't think I am alone in finding that deep bass adds considerably to the enjoyment of music - I don't care about home theater, so I'm not talking about explosions and so on. The low end adds a lot of the sense of the room the music was recorded in. Of course many records are so multitracked and processed that there aren't any cues to the acoustic space, but when it is on a recording, it's very satisfying.
El cheapo subwoofers probably won't provide much extension and will detract from the clarity, so you do need to get a good subwoofer - fortunately they aren't necessarily expensive, and they show up for sale used or at the dump fairly often. The plate amps often die on them, but can be replaced.
And you do need to place them reasonably carefully (two image better than one - yes, you often can hear where the bass comes from), and you have to integrate them into the system or they will stick out like a sore thumb or be essentially inaudible.
 
ok, lots of responses, here's my $.02 and that's about what it's worth.

I have 5 systems throughout the digs, two in the media rm, for music I prefer listening in 2-channel only.

For yrs I used my main system for both 2-channel music and multi-channel tv watching. The surround processor can do a phantom center but that's a poor substitute for the real thing.

As I never listened to music with surround I never deemed it necessary the center match the mains, its mainly for dialogue was my thinking. So I've used Infinity, Canton, etc as the center channel.

But moving to the new digs I was blessed with a room to dedicate to my media, so I set up two systems, one dedicated to 2-channel the other multi-channel. Why two you might ask? Well, up until now I always setup for 2-channel first then added the additional speakers for surround.

Not exactly the optimum solution for multi-channel as it requires different speaker location for the mains if running a center channel, much farther apart and closer to the side walls.

My most recent mains for the multi-channel are Jamo C-103's originally paired with a Canton center channel with good results. But serendipitously I found the matching Jamo center new on eBay at a ridiculous price so I grabbed it. Not thinking it would really make much difference (dialogue only remember?) I replaced the Canton with the Jamo C-10.

WOW, I'm now a true believer the center should match the mains as closely as possible even if never used for music. And the Jamo C-10 has outstanding bass output which easily keeps up with the mains plus subs.

So, back to your question, what will you be missing? a whole hell of a lot if planning on using your system for multi-channel for video or music.

20211010_085938.jpg

even with extremely large mains and unlimited budget this guy understood just what I'm talking about, two separate sets of speakers, one for 2-channel music, the others for surround with a center channel speaker. notice the mains for multi-channel are positioned outside of the mains for 2-channel and near the side walls.

230a550f8c2fd43ba159e0b4c3c393c7.jpg
 
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I also setup two systems in my basement. The home theater has four subwoofers, and seven speakers, The stereo system for music is also outside of the home theater speakers. Stuff that is encoded for 7.1 is amazing an immersive. THe stuff that is in 5.1 souns better with a center channel. I like to watch rock concerts on this system on blu ray or dvd and it gives the sense of being there. I have a projector that I use with a movable screen so I can use the tv behind it when I don't nee or want to use the projector. Two of the subs are identical sitting next to my listening spot. They were both free and do add to the experience. They are set not to overload the bass in the room. Boba fett sounds amazing with the theme song and overall sound.
 
Nat said:
I don't think I am alone in finding that deep bass adds considerably to the enjoyment of music - I don't care about home theater, so I'm not talking about explosions and so on. The low end adds a lot of the sense of the room the music was recorded in. Of course many records are so multitracked and processed that there aren't any cues to the acoustic space, but when it is on a recording, it's very satisfying.
El cheapo subwoofers probably won't provide much extension and will detract from the clarity, so you do need to get a good subwoofer - fortunately they aren't necessarily expensive, and they show up for sale used or at the dump fairly often. The plate amps often die on them, but can be replaced.
And you do need to place them reasonably carefully (two image better than one - yes, you often can hear where the bass comes from), and you have to integrate them into the system or they will stick out like a sore thumb or be essentially inaudible.
Click to expand...
I agree that subs ad depth to music. I listen to my rock concert dvds and it makes a difference. I added another sub to my one which balanced the sound. recently add two more subs and itsounds even better. The trick is to calibrate subs so they don't overpower th system with bass. They need to be subtle.
 
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