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What if I HAVE TO use a Victrola turntable?

Bobby DIG8L

Bobby DIG8L

New Member
My wife got one of those Victrola 7-in-1 things for the living room because it matches her decor :rolleyes: and she plays our records on it now. I have a Technics SL-Q3 and a Sansui SR-525 which are both setup in spec and are decent enough quality units that I trust them to not damage my records (not that they are very high end records but still). This Victrola not so much, it's got that typical garbage plastic table with the red cartridge. She likes it though for the looks and it's easy enough for her to use and does other stuff like radio/bluetooth.


The vertical tracking force is measuring 5.7 grams!!! Should I be worried about this? Any tips on how I can reduce this, it doesn't have any adjustable counter weight that I can tell but can I hack a counter weight on like taping a penny or does anybody have any suggestions?



Should I even try reducing the tracking weight or will it cause problems? It's playing ok right now she's run a few records through it...
 
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If these are records you care about, I would re-open that conversation with her. I think it's pretty likely that tracking force/player is not going to be kind to your vinyl.

I feel for you, my spouse is frustrated by my setups and doesn't really want to use even the very simple system in the dining room - so she mostly uses her old phone and the old Sony compact boom box in the kitchen.

Is there any way to buy a piece of furniture that would allow you to nicely integrate one of the better turntables & compact amp/speakers into the room?
 
Thanks for the feedback but as it stands she's pretty proud of her new acquisition and showing it off to whoever comes over, replacing it with a better unit and trying to hide it would be missing the point. My records are all mostly used thrift store finds under $10 with a few newer records valued at maybe $20. So it's not worth the debate really. Just more was wondering if there's a hack I can try or others have tried?
 
Simply put, don't play good records on that Victrola. Why not a Barzilay type cablnet to install your separate components in which is missus acceptable. If you must use the Victrola, CD is recommended.
 
A whole cabinet is heading in the wrong direction, we're working with a 24" wide shelf. I think I should clarify I'm not really looking for alternative suggestions but rather a way to make keep this unit in service while trying not to cause too much dusctruction.

I watched a VWestlife video testing wear of a cheap sapphire stylus with a ceramic cartridge (at over 5G) vs typical MM cartridge and it wasn't bad at all except over 18khz which gave me some assurance. I think if I change the stylus frequently enough my thrift store collection will be fine and I will keep anything nice (if I ever get something nice enough) off of this unit. Still I welcome any suggestions on reducing the tracking force a bit for good measure...
 
As I understand it the construction and design of those players does not really allow for modifications that can reduce/eliminate the type of damage (like that insane tracking force) that these players can do to a LP groove over time. I think your only option is to get her set up with her own record collection whether it is new, used or a combination of both. As she plays this collection dedicated to her "system" and eventually hears the sound quality get worse as the groove damage becomes noticeable than it may be the clearest way to show her the destructive nature of this type of table.

On the plus side if this system as bad as it is builds her enthusiasm for vinyl then perhaps she will outgrow her fondness for the Victrola and want to upgrade to a more serious system in the future. That could also help you upgrade your own system at some point if that is something you want to do.
 
Bobby DIG8L said:
. . . The vertical tracking force is measuring 5.7 grams!!! Should I be worried about this? Any tips on how I can reduce this, it doesn't have any adjustable counter weight that I can tell but can I hack a counter weight on like taping a penny or does anybody have any suggestions?
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So is the factory-set tracking force accomplished by spring tension? My AT-LP60X works this way, and Vwestlife showed how getting an accurate vtf means measuring it when the stylus is at exactly the same height it would be at when playing a record. Measuring the tracking force by just placing the scale on the platter was, if I recall correctly, in excess of 4.5 grams. Following the procedure Vwestlife explained in one of his videos, I took pains to remove the platter and build up a little platform for the gauge so that when the tracking force is being measured, the stylus is at the same height as it would be when playing a record, and the gauge read 3.53 grams, almost exactly the 3.5 grams specified by AT. Since you watch Vwestlife videos, perhaps you already did this; if not, maybe the actual vtf is a bit lower than indicated.

Vwestlife also encouraged me about my LP60X usage by reporting that RCA's standard was that a stereo record should be able to be played 100 times "with a conventional low-quality record player using a ceramic cartridge, tracking at 4½ grams," and still sound like an unplayed record.
Bobby DIG8L said:
Should I even try reducing the tracking weight or will it cause problems? It's playing ok right now she's run a few records through it...
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What I've read is that tracking lighter than the cartridge/stylus is designed for can cause mistracking, which can cause more severe record damage than a relatively high tracking force.
 
I am not going to be snobby - with a check of VTF and making sure that you have clean records and keep the stylus clean I'd say you are fine.

I've bought newer records from people who use new low-end turntables and haven't encountered any issues with them.

I suppose that the record player spins the records at the correct speed and your wife is happy with the audio all should be fine.

Could you gut it and upgrade everything? Sure. But why hassle.

Happy wife! Happy life!
 
Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but my wife wanted a Crosley. I indulged her and bought one and she (without me prompting) even said the sound quality was absolute garbage and downright unpleasant.

I bought here this all-in-one speakers/turntable combo by 1 by ONE and have been very impressed by it. It's a good step up from a Crosley, and at least has adjustable VTF and a standard AT3600 cartridge. The sound quality is surprisingly good. I have no qualms playing any of my records on it.

1 by ONE High Fidelity Belt Drive Turntable with Built-in Speakers, Vinyl Record Player with Magnetic Cartridge, Bluetooth Playback and Aux-in Functionality, Auto Off
 
Thank you for the realistic answers, I don't think most people realize their precious vintage vinyl was once played in a 14-year-old girl's bedroom maybe 50 years ago on the cheapest possible equipment they could afford at the time. That being said I think I'm going to just run it and keep anything super nice off of it. I did measure the weight as close as I could to the level that the stylus would contact the record surface. I might tape a penny to the back and see if it tracks any less while still avoiding skipping.
 
Assuming this is an automatic turntable? If it's fully manual you *may* be able to fit a better tonearm.
 
It's only auto-off, in that it stops spinning when it reaches the end of the record, but it does not auto return or anything
 
Bobby DIG8L said:
Thank you for the realistic answers, I don't think most people realize their precious vintage vinyl was once played in a 14-year-old girl's bedroom maybe 50 years ago on the cheapest possible equipment they could afford at the time. That being said I think I'm going to just run it and keep anything super nice off of it. I did measure the weight as close as I could to the level that the stylus would contact the record surface. I might tape a penny to the back and see if it tracks any less while still avoiding skipping.
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Realistically, my collection of used records was not played 50 year ago in a 14 year old girl's bedroom on the cheapest possible equipment they could afford. I doubt my taste in music ever included what would appeal to that audience and I'm certain that the records I buy are in far better shape than those you describe. In my case, the quality of the music, a product of both the medium it's recorded on and the equipment I use to play it, is important to me so I prioritize to obtain that. In your case, it sounds as if that is less important, a perfectly valid choice, but please don't make the mistake of generalizing your approach to include everyone.
 
Just wait it out.
Maybe one of the other 6 easier to use functions will become the new favorite.
 
If a diamond nail is available, consider swapping it. A worn stylus will cause more problems than the tracking force alone will, and sapphire simply does not hold up as well as diamond.

Honestly 5-6 grams with a good conical isn't that big of a deal. I know people here get the vapors at anything over 1.5 grams but in the early days of stereo LPs were played on things like the Stanton 380 and Shure M3D, both of which run around 5 grams.
 
But even if you aren't overly concerned about the tracking force, sapphire styli don't last long, in fact, they barely last short. And at 5.7 grams, a worn stylus might do some damage.
Obviously there are different opinions about stylus wear and shape, but I grew up reading the inner sleeves of LP records, with their warnings about the number of sides you could safely play with osmium, sapphire, and diamond styli. (Osmium styli were cheap and took a fine polish, but they wore out remarkably quickly - dozens of records would be my unreliable memory's guess - and, guess what, osmium is the densest element, so as a stylus choice, it is pretty perverse.) There is a big difference between the life of sapphire and diamond. I would trust the testing experience of the people who invented LPs and created the market (and even the ads) from the time of the LP's emergence and then its utter dominance as the sound source of choice over the statements of any marketer nowadays.
 
Seems I struck a nerve with some, sorry to those with the precious collections, it was just a joke. I know there are varying conditions and values of records and will keep the good ones off of it. Thanks for the diamond suggestion, I'm already looking at one that VWestlife mentioned as an upgrade ceramic cartridge for these cheap things.
 
gadget73 said:
If a diamond nail is available, consider swapping it. A worn stylus will cause more problems than the tracking force alone will, and sapphire simply does not hold up as well as diamond.

Honestly 5-6 grams with a good conical isn't that big of a deal. I know people here get the vapors at anything over 1.5 grams but in the early days of stereo LPs were played on things like the Stanton 380 and Shure M3D, both of which run around 5 grams.
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Those cartridges were higher compliance than the bricks on cheap phonos, and cost more by themselves than cheap phonos. When new, those were $60 cartridges list price. And bear in mind, on a good manual turntable, with good precision tonearm, the Shure M3D successfully tracked at 3 grams, the heavier forces of 4-5 grams were for changer applications. People with the Empire, Thorens models, the Rek-O-Kut Micropoise, the Garrard 301, could track a M3 at 3 grams all day, as could broadcast tonearms.
 
If there are any records you particularly value, put them someplace else! Only put out the ones you can easily replace or that you don't care about.
 
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