what makes a good cd player ?
- Thread starter neopan
- Start date
For those not wanting to spend 5-6 figures on a player, going the modified route will get you 90-95% of the way there, while saving you many thousands of dollars - and then you can use this saved money on other components, music, room treatments, Power conditioning, cables, etc. etc.
I have gone through many iterations of a "modified" player and through all of this I have found the following to have the most change:
1. Output Stages - get rid of the OpAmps and all the extra electronics that most players seem to have. The top modders (Modwright and VSE) are limited in what players they install their output stages in.
2. New Clock - Almost the equivalent of the Output Stages, but just below it. VSE has their Terra Firma Clocks for addition to any player.
3. Replace parts in the player - Coupling Caps, Resistors, Power, etc.
4. Lastly - find the proper Interconnects and Power Cord for the player and the synergy in your rig.
Number 1 & 2 will really take a player to sonic levels you did not think your player was capable of. While both mods are great, the two together, really compliment each other.
I have tried quite a few external DAC's in my day, and mods have surpassed them - again IMO and in my rig.
NOTE: Power Conditioning is not just for a CD Player, but for your entire rig. In order for your components to really shine, Power Conditioning is a must. My two favorites (and I have tried **MANY**) are Running Springs and Shunyata.
I have gone through many iterations of a "modified" player and through all of this I have found the following to have the most change:
1. Output Stages - get rid of the OpAmps and all the extra electronics that most players seem to have. The top modders (Modwright and VSE) are limited in what players they install their output stages in.
2. New Clock - Almost the equivalent of the Output Stages, but just below it. VSE has their Terra Firma Clocks for addition to any player.
3. Replace parts in the player - Coupling Caps, Resistors, Power, etc.
4. Lastly - find the proper Interconnects and Power Cord for the player and the synergy in your rig.
Number 1 & 2 will really take a player to sonic levels you did not think your player was capable of. While both mods are great, the two together, really compliment each other.
I have tried quite a few external DAC's in my day, and mods have surpassed them - again IMO and in my rig.
NOTE: Power Conditioning is not just for a CD Player, but for your entire rig. In order for your components to really shine, Power Conditioning is a must. My two favorites (and I have tried **MANY**) are Running Springs and Shunyata.
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guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
Power conditioners could be very expensive, including some models of the brands you mentioned. Which specific models are you considering here?
I have tried many different companies from the cheaper ones on up. APC, Panamax, Monster, Chang, Adept, Belkin, Powervar, Audience, PS Audio, Shunyata, Running Springs.
What I have found is good conditioning "usually" costs good money. But then it all depends on how good your current rig is. Would I buy a $2k power conditioner for a setup which does not cost $2k - nope. Probably one of the cheaper ones would do you well.
The used market can bring some great quality equipment at a great price.
Until I went through the experience myself, I would not have believed there to be so much difference between models. I found the Shunyata and Running Springs to tame the nasties yet retain the dynamics and details of the music - again in my rig and my tastes.
Like anything else in this hobby, each should try out models in your price range and find the one you like the best. As you see I have tried many, and kept coming back to Shunyata and Running Springs. I have a Hydra-2, a Hydra-6, and a RS Haley. I use Shunyata and DH Labs for Power Cords.
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guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
I've always been tempted to follow the DIY route and build a AC filter of this sort:
http://lampizator.eu/AC FILTER/SILK/FILTER.HTML
So far, it has been a sleeping project.
http://lampizator.eu/AC FILTER/SILK/FILTER.HTML
So far, it has been a sleeping project.
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Question: Without the op amps that make up the reconstruction filter, how do you get rid of the ultrasonic noise that's present at the output of the DAC chips? The Sampling Theorem teaches that the output filter is necessary if you want to recover the original waveform without loss. It's also worth noting that high levels of ultrasonic noise can overdrive your preamp and amp into nonlinear operation and could even endanger your tweeters. You may be willing to take that sort of risk. I'm not.
This has the potential to improve the accuracy of the conversion by reducing jitter (timebase instability), though it could make jitter worse if the clock were poorly engineered or badly installed.
If the DAC chip is a voltage output chip you can use passive audio transformers like I have done with the CS4398, you just need to provide a load that the chip is happy with, and use a simple R/C filter on the secondary of the transformers. One store in Hong Kong has a nice tube output stage that can replace the output stage and works with some popular voltage and current DACs.
Mr. Lin
Lunatic Member
I would love to have one of those Shunyata power conditioners. I use the Diamondback pc's in my system now, they work well with most things.
So what you say is definitely one way to go, but I just have to mention (again) one rather dramatic improvement I experience in the last year was removing conditioning altogether, and switching to a PS Audio Juice Bar II, which is connected to an Oyaide SWO-XXX wall outlet via one of the Diamondbacks. Vast sonic improvement. I don't rule out trying a good power conditioner in the future, but right now the bare-bones approach to connecting everything to the wall is working out really well for me.
hmmm...don't you think the comapanies who design these new output stages without OpAmps have not thought of things like this? If in doubt, why not contact the people at Modwright or Vacuum State about their output stages? I am sure they can help you out with your speculation. Modwright has their own forum over at Audio Circles - Dan and owners visit there and can post their opinions and thoughts. VSE modified players are talked about over at the Asylum either in Hi-Rez or Digital forums.
http://www.customanalogue.com Contact Joe Rasmussen
http://vacuumstate.com/ (Allen Wright - owner of VSE died earlier this year - so contact Joe with questions)
http://www.modwright.com Contact Dan Wright
The VSE Clock upgrade was one of the best upgrades - almost the equivalent to new output stages. Again instead of speculating what these clocks do or do not, contact the people who make them.
I think I have posted this before, but here is more information on their clocks:
http://www.customanalogue.com/terra_firma.htm
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Yep, even the lower Shunyata's are very nice - Venom 3, DiamondBack, and Copperhead.
The Python's are really the point where Shunyata Power Cords really take off and shine. The DH Lab Power Plus or Red Wave are great cords at slightly lower and much lower cost than the Python's. Used Python's are the way to go to save some $$$. But if the used price is too much, then DH Labs are a great alternative.
I tried a few of the PS Audio products and did not like any of them. Conditioners, Power Strips, or Cables. There were not bad, just not up to the level of the products I currently use.
Glad to see the PS Audio product have met your needs. You and many others are very happy with PS Audio and people should give them a try to see if they fit their needs.
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