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What other TT makes/models do "Dual idler TT lovers" recommend

Thorens TD-124 because of the 'layered' sound it is capable of producing. Very refined and yet with a lot of 'authority'. I like its performance with classical music and Jazz. It can produce a musical 'Aha-Erlebnis' during listening sessions.
A TD-135 has a similar sound, but with less of this 'authority'.
In an A/B-shootout with these tables a Lenco L-78S sounded less sophisticated, but it put the spotlight much more on the main performer. Very pleasing with small Jazz combo's and Pop/Rock.

My only ID-Dual is a 1219. Very much an all round performer, never lets me down sonically. These days I have been using it for playing in a new JICO SAS stylus on my
V-15III. Does a great job with it. Never letting me down...
 
other tables besides the Dual idlers?

I am new to idler turntables (at least appreciating them :) ). My experiences with idlers is very limited, but I have had a few paradigm shifts concerning these, and particularly the Duals:
  • the Dual 1214 is seriously good, as long as it is in an improved plinth. I made one out of BB ply and softwood. It is brutal to look at, but sounds incredible
  • the Dual 1226 is similar but a little easier to do a "single play" conversion on
  • the Lenco Lab60 is better constructed, but uses a similar main bearing. The easiest of these three to convert to single play
  • None of the tonearms are very good compared to modern ones. Anyone need some Dual or Garrard tone arm parts?
  • my Lab80 promises to be better han the rest, except doing a single play conversion is more complicated than any of the above turntables. The tone arm is beautiful though, and may benefit from a "hot rod" rewire. I prefer not to do any conversions or modifications to this table if possible. It is nice to have an old table in essentially stock condition, and a historic changer at that.
  • All the stock plinths of the Duals and the Garrards that I have had are very poorly built, an example: the top plate of the stock Lab60 walnut plinth is made of "hardboard". It rattles terribly and is being removed today as I continue my mods to the Lab60
  • any modern tonearm with new or modern wiring kills the stock arms
  • the quality of materials in the Garrards (in general) are head and shoulders above the Duals: no plastic anywhere, all metal construction including the changer cam wheels etc.
  • the micro-adjuster for fine speed adjustments is clearly an advantage of the Duals
I know this is quite abit to list.

Now here are a few thoughts regarding the sound:
  • the 1214, 1226 and the Lab60, when used with a modern arm of my own design (and construction) clearly run in the same league as my Oracle/SME309/Grado sig8 and my friend's Roksan Xerxes?improved RB250(teflon-silver rewire, Techno-weight, VTA nut adjuster)/Ortofon MC3 turbo , and I think are superior to them (Grado sig8)
  • soundstaging is both deep and wide compared to the modern tables as above
  • bass impact is superior to both modern tables
  • The 1214 and 1226 are superior to the Garrard. But the Duals have been mounted in terrible looking, but good sounding plinths, and the Lab60 is in a stock, unmodified plinth
  • PRAT (Pace, Rythm, Attack and Timing) is excellent and superior to the modern tables, my feeling is that the Lab60 is better than the Duals in this regard, but the Duals are no slouches.
  • I have not heard an appreciable difference in background noise of the three idlers as compared to the two modern belt driven tables. I have however cleaned and re-greased all of the main bearings on the old three:), and the arm I made is sitting on a heavy aluminum "pod"

Based on my experiments thus far, I believe that the Garrard Lab60 is better than the two Duals listed. This cannot be verified until a new pinth is made for the Lab60 or the stock plinth is modified and improved.

These comments are based on removing the "suspensions" of the Duals and the Garrard Lab60. I shall attemp to limit my modifications to the Lab80 to a tonearm re-wire as it is in wonderful shape and I personally don't want to ruin a historic piece.

I need to make some "heavy plinths" to take advantage of the suspensionless idler tables and see how they might respond to Lenco style multi layer BB ply plinth or similar.
 
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