What part of my system would you suggest I upgrade next?

[redondo2018]

So I have what I guess is at best mid-fi main system in my not very large but not very small living room, that has a high ceiling. I listen to all kinds of music. About 90% of the time I listen to vinyl (I have thousands) with the other 10% split between regular CDs and reel-to-reel studio tapes (I have around 200 CDs and 100 tapes). I don't need AM/FM in the main system. Cables throughout are nothing special. I don't particularly think there is anything "wrong" with it (I can shake the neighborhood if I want but still feel like I get nice sound out of audiophile reissues, and if I did nothing I wouldn't lose sleep I guess) but I'm really interested to hear opinions about it and what would be the logical better mid-fi, low hifi, thing to upgrade next (probably in the $500-1500 range, but minor things like cables I'm willing to consider as well):

Pioneer PL530 running an AT-OC9ML/II (has some minor pitch fluctuation, but can be dialed in)
SAE Two PA-10 pre
Adcom GFA-555 amp
Denon DVD-3910 (plays SACD, but I don't have any at the moment)
Cerwin Vega AT-15s
Second turntable for older records: stock AR XB with Shure M91
AKAI GX-220D r2r

In addition the tables listed, I have a Thorens TD145 and Dual 1219 in working order. I also have a Pioneer Elite VSX-99 (that of the loud fan), a matching Adcom pre-amp, and some other semi-functional gear, including what would be an upgrade on the R2R if I could get it work all the time ;-)).

Any feedback welcome, thanks!!! (and if you say "upgrade it all" I won't be offended )

 

[rickb119]

I'd probably look at different speakers. Perhaps something that could still "shake the neighborhood", but might have a little more detail at lower volumes.

Don't know what's out there in the new department but for used, I like KEF (104/2, 107) and any of the larger ADS. Both makes dig plenty deep, but with great detail, soundstage, etc.

 

[redondo2018]

I'd probably look at different speakers. Perhaps something that could still "shake the neighborhood", but might have a little more detail at lower volumes.

Don't know what's out there in the new department but for used, I like KEF (104/2, 107) and any of the larger ADS. Both makes dig plenty deep, but with great detail, soundstage, etc.

Interesting. Yeah, I should have also said I have a nice pair of Infinity Crescendo CS3006 bookshelves that I used to have in that system, but that I put in my office (and also I don't regularly play at too loud of volumes, just like the CVs because they can effortlessly fill any space, but yeah, not as detailed as the Infinity or other speakers for sure).

 

[Tiver]

You could likely get an upgrade for anything in the upper tier of the budget. However I am not sure upgrade is the easiest pursuit because one piece might require other upgraded pieces to exhibit its true virtues.

So it might be a path to "different" while working within the budget. Picking up any interesting pieces for a fair price as a trial is this route. Sell what doesn't float your boat. Then you might stumble upon something you feel is not only different but better. Voila! Upgrade!

As far as cables and interconnects there is a lot of contention in that subject. If you are very familiar with the sound you have, you might dabble in something. Still, I would think that best be handled with some type of googling research before actual recommendations are sought.

 

[gizzyman47]

How about some room treatment? That should make the gear you already have sound even better.

 

[redondo2018]

How about some room treatment? That should make the gear you already have sound even better.

Ok, so is that isolation of components (I think I've done an ok job of that, everything is on separate solid shelves, room is carpeted), moving furniture around, using an equalizer, or other ideas? I'm a renter, so afraid I can't do anything structural ;-(

 

[gizzyman47]

Bass traps in the corners. Treat the first reflections. None of this is permanent. Can take it with you if you move.

 

[Stavro]

Nice system. I have a Thorens TD166MKii myself. I would suggest playing with a pair of Hafler XL-280's running in monoblock mode. It isn't that you need more power, but the separation and soundstage just explode when you go mono. I tried it with a pair of Hafler XL-600's into a pair of Dynaudio Audience 8's. I don't need 1500wpc going into 200 watt speakers, but it is the separation and the lack of drain on the transformer and rectifiers that just make it spectacular. Also, the amp becomes a push/pull configuration, thereby increasing gain by 6db.

 

[JoeShimandle]

My suggestion would be to upgrade the speakers. We had Cerwin Vega AT-15s in the college fraternity basement party room and they rocked but not best for detail. A lot of great speakers out there so just look around. Since you're not in a hurry then wait for year end clearance sales. If you need slamming rock bass then get a sub woofer and crank it up for that.

A good set of interconnects and speaker cables does make a difference. For your system level, similar to mine, I went with Kimber PBJs interconnects. Didn't need more performance at a much higher cost as my system isn't audiophile level, just a nice home system.

Speaker cable I went with Kimber 8VS speaker cable. Kept it in the family and really had no idea what would really work. Just needed an upgrade. The cable replaced the Monster cable. Didn't think I heard much difference in sound and detail until I looked at the volume knob. The volume level was a couple of marks below would be same with the Monster cable. got more detail at lower levels and didn't have to drive the speakers harder.

 

[redondo2018]

My suggestion would be to upgrade the speakers. We had Cerwin Vega AT-15s in the college fraternity basement party room and they rocked but not best for detail. A lot of great speakers out there so just look around. Since you're not in a hurry then wait for year end clearance sales. If you need slamming rock bass then get a sub woofer and crank it up for that.

A good set of interconnects and speaker cables does make a difference. For your system level, similar to mine, I went with Kimber PBJs interconnects. Didn't need more performance at a much higher cost as my system isn't audiophile level, just a nice home system.

Speaker cable I went with Kimber 8VS speaker cable. Kept it in the family and really had no idea what would really work. Just needed an upgrade. The cable replaced the Monster cable. Didn't think I heard much difference in sound and detail until I looked at the volume knob. The volume level was a couple of marks below would be same with the Monster cable. got more detail at lower levels and didn't have to drive the speakers harder.

Very interesting that you're the second person to suggest moving on from the CVs - I went through a move last summer and strongly debated keeping them at that time - so I went here and asked advice https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/cerwin-vega-at-15-moving-dilema.924891/ - most said to keep/fix them, which I ended up doing. Not saying you're wrong, just interesting that these seem to be so polarizing re: SQ. I do think they lack some detail, but at the same time, I think just from the SIZE of them, I hear things I haven't heard before. Before the move, I had the Crescendos in this system (much smaller space) and they certainly have more detail.

Re: interconnects and speaker cable, thanks for the recommendation, I also don't believe my system is worth audiophile-level cabling, but a mid-fi upgrade probably does make sense (speaker wire is literally from Home Depot and interconnects are just mostly piecemeal / lower-end Amazon buys).

 

[JoeShimandle]

Very interesting that you're the second person to suggest moving on from the CVs - I went through a move last summer and strongly debated keeping them at that time - so I went here and asked advice https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/cerwin-vega-at-15-moving-dilema.924891/ - most said to keep/fix them, which I ended up doing. Not saying you're wrong, just interesting that these seem to be so polarizing re: SQ. I do think they lack some detail, but at the same time, I think just from the SIZE of them, I hear things I haven't heard before. Before the move, I had the Crescendos in this system (much smaller space) and they certainly have more detail.

Re: interconnects and speaker cable, thanks for the recommendation, I also don't believe my system is worth audiophile-level cabling, but a mid-fi upgrade probably does make sense (speaker wire is literally from Home Depot and interconnects are just mostly piecemeal / lower-end Amazon buys).

Nothing against the CV as we abused them and they kept going. Never let us down playing Foghat Fool For The City at ear bleed level. Just think for more serious listening and drawing out all that is in those vinyls then there are many better choices. Speakers are very subjective to the listener. Doesn't hurt to audition some if one is looking to up grade a system. So many to choose from.

Definitely up grade your interconnects and speaker cable. I couldn't see going high end for my modest system. Any mid level upgrade would be an improvement. So many good choices it takes a while to choose.

 

[rickb119]

Re: interconnects and speaker cable, thanks for the recommendation, I also don't believe my system is worth audiophile-level cabling, but a mid-fi upgrade probably does make sense (speaker wire is literally from Home Depot and interconnects are just mostly piecemeal / lower-end Amazon buys).

If you can solder, good quality interconnects are easy to make. Many, myself included, use Mogami microphone cable (Parts Express). For the RCA plugs I used Switchcraft, but there are many other options. Using coax cable was also popular, at one time. I've made some of those as well, but prefer the Mogami.

 

[audiocrzy]

get a nice comfortable chair to sit in.

 

[adnick]

The thing that caught my attention is your AR XB, has it been gone through, with “Marc Morin” type mods? If not that would be my focus, and if you can do the work yourself, then there’s money left for more vinyl

I’m very fond of CV AT 15s especially the early ones, get them off the floor if not already done, because you have the equipment to drive them.....

VR
Andy

 

[Hobie1dog]

Replace the Adcom amp (I've had 2 of them and replacing them was the best thing I did to improve the sound quality). Now all of you Adcom lovers remain silent for now, this is just my experience.
Add rear speakers to completely engulf yourself in sound.

 

[redondo2018]

The thing that caught my attention is your AR XB, has it been gone through, with “Marc Morin” type mods? If not that would be my focus, and if you can do the work yourself, then there’s money left for more vinyl

I’m very fond of CV AT 15s especially the early ones, get them off the floor if not already done, because you have the equipment to drive them.....

VR
Andy

It's completely stock and in pretty much perfect condition, so I doubt I'd ever mod that one (might someday pick up more of a beater and try modding that, they ARE great simple tables). If I was going to mod one of my current tables, it would probably be the Thorens TD 145, with a new tonearm and a MDF baseplate, from what I've gathered, it seems you can create a pretty good table out of it.

 

[redondo2018]

Replace the Adcom amp (I've had 2 of them and replacing them was the best thing I did to improve the sound quality). Now all of you Adcom lovers remain silent for now, this is just my experience.
Add rear speakers to completely engulf yourself in sound.

Interesting. Honestly I got a whole Adcom set (amp, pre, and tuner) from a neighbor for free, and when I got the AT-15s fixed it made the most sense to me to power them with it. Interested to hear what the improvement was when you switched, my impression is that it is fairly neutral, leaning towards a bit harsh, certainly not "mellow" or "smooth". Also, I've always thought (maybe incorrectly) that the pre is where you get the "sound" from and the amp should just be POWER.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Interesting.Interested to hear what the improvement was when you switched, my impression is that it is fairly neutral, leaning towards a bit harsh, certainly not "mellow" or "smooth". .

I got my first Adcom preamp and amp 30 years ago and my son came home from college and was listening to the stereo and I walked in the room and he immediately asked me what happened to my Classe' preamp. I told him that I had made the mistake of selling it and finding this Adcom amp and he says " I guess you know that that was a mistake as this thing is lifeless." It was the same thing with the amplifier as he commented that there was nowhere near the dynamics of my previous amplifier that I had, and that it did not have the bass that the system once had. 20 years later I get another and Adcom amp included with the purchase of a pair of speakers, and so I take it home and put it in my system and my son happened to be there as well and the first thing he said was where did all the bass go?, and if anybody ever wondered that there was a difference in the sound quality of two different amplifiers, that they should've been in the room to hear that. It was so bad that I took it to my repair man to have him look it over to see if there was something wrong with it. Replaced it with another known good amp and the speakers started sounding normal again with 30% more bass and 50% better dynamics. This is just my personal experience so don't all of the Adcom lovers come back and flame me, it's just my two cents worth.

 

[redondo2018]

Honestly, if it were me - the speakers are the issue. I really dislike the shoutiness of C-V speakers and never really understood what people see in them.

I realize different strokes for different folks.

Only the OP can really decide what to change.

Some people have suggested switching out the tweeters in the AT-15s can significantly improve them. Speaker guy that re-coned one of the woofers said I could do it without changing the crossovers (and that alternatives weren't expensive - like $30 for a pair he said) so I might try that at some point

 

[Old Guy8]

I assume you listen to rock. Because CVs are generally thought of as rock speakers. It's rare for a speaker to do all genres of music well. They all have thier nitch. If your into jazz, opera, baroque, chamber music, celtic or classical, would definitely call for a speaker change.

If its "Smoke on the Water" (Deep Purple, if not of an age) your set.

There are hundreds of speakers out there, to choose from. Depending on what you listen to, how loud, how sensitive they are to match what you have to drive them with.