What Phono Stage to buy?
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BamaBilly
Motorcycles and Music
I’m on my second phono preamp now and looking to upgrade. Currently I’m using a Jolida JD9 with all the upgrades done to it and it sounds great but I’ve read really good things about the Black Ice F159 (Black Ice used to be Jolida)tube preamp. They’re a tiny bit over your budget but used is always possible I suppose.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
One might consider used also? It could get you more for your money spent. I'm never heard much in the way that decent built phono stages are that prone to failure.
Usually, the more adjustability they have, the more they cost. And adjustability is a good thing, because one day you may find a need for another Cartridge, and possibly a certain phono stage won't be quite compatible with gain and loading settings.
Not sure about the Sutherland marketing comments to say anything about such, but Sutherland makes some very good phono stages, made in USA, a good company, and I myself own an older Sutherland PHD, great unit, been very happy with it. I would highly recommend the PHD, you might be able to find one today at the $1000 price. Gain is 45-50-55-60db and loading is 100, 200, 1000 and 47K ohms with the supplied stock Boards. Both Boards simply unplug from the Mother Board, and rotate into place for the different settings for gain-loading.
Battery Powered, free from EMI and RFI nasties. A dead quiet unit, auto-on and off sentry, auto on is adjustable via a screw type Pot on the Board, and Batteries last about 800 hours of play.
There is a low battery Sentry monitor and light on the front of the unit, plus on, and right before going to sleep. Uses 16 D-Cells. A heavy unit at 29 lbs, beautiful construction.
Generally, the stock boards can usually handle quite many MC Cartridges, and as well MM.
Their was once a high gain board available, 62-64-66-68db, and a blank loading board were resistors could be soldered to the board giving any loading one would choose. Probably again giving 4 choices of custom loading if needed.
Their internal layouts are quite clean, uncluttered on the Sutherland Units.
There are so many to choose from, and I know, this is what makes choosing hard in virtually any price range. Tubes can offer a lush midrange, but can also exibit what is referred to as tube rush. And then there's the tube rolling, and replacement involved possibly which can add to costs over time.
Some are simpler designs, maybe the use of 1 or 2 tubes, others a bit more elaborate, and more tubes.
Phono stages like the Manley Steelhead and Asthetix Rhea (sp) come to mind as 2.
Here's a PHD currently listed.for reference and pics.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUTHERLAND...675203?hash=item4b8b6c42c3:g:r4EAAOSwNCRgC4UG
Usually, the more adjustability they have, the more they cost. And adjustability is a good thing, because one day you may find a need for another Cartridge, and possibly a certain phono stage won't be quite compatible with gain and loading settings.
Not sure about the Sutherland marketing comments to say anything about such, but Sutherland makes some very good phono stages, made in USA, a good company, and I myself own an older Sutherland PHD, great unit, been very happy with it. I would highly recommend the PHD, you might be able to find one today at the $1000 price. Gain is 45-50-55-60db and loading is 100, 200, 1000 and 47K ohms with the supplied stock Boards. Both Boards simply unplug from the Mother Board, and rotate into place for the different settings for gain-loading.
Battery Powered, free from EMI and RFI nasties. A dead quiet unit, auto-on and off sentry, auto on is adjustable via a screw type Pot on the Board, and Batteries last about 800 hours of play.
There is a low battery Sentry monitor and light on the front of the unit, plus on, and right before going to sleep. Uses 16 D-Cells. A heavy unit at 29 lbs, beautiful construction.
Generally, the stock boards can usually handle quite many MC Cartridges, and as well MM.
Their was once a high gain board available, 62-64-66-68db, and a blank loading board were resistors could be soldered to the board giving any loading one would choose. Probably again giving 4 choices of custom loading if needed.
Their internal layouts are quite clean, uncluttered on the Sutherland Units.
There are so many to choose from, and I know, this is what makes choosing hard in virtually any price range. Tubes can offer a lush midrange, but can also exibit what is referred to as tube rush. And then there's the tube rolling, and replacement involved possibly which can add to costs over time.
Some are simpler designs, maybe the use of 1 or 2 tubes, others a bit more elaborate, and more tubes.
Phono stages like the Manley Steelhead and Asthetix Rhea (sp) come to mind as 2.
Here's a PHD currently listed.for reference and pics.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUTHERLAND...675203?hash=item4b8b6c42c3:g:r4EAAOSwNCRgC4UG
Last edited:
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Forgot to mention, there is an entire Interior Board Upgrade for the Sutherland PHD, which replaces everything inside the Unit, eliminates Battery Power, which some didn't like because of possible Battery Leakage.
I'm not sure at the moment, but think it then uses a Wall Wart, or an external Power Supply? Cost I thought I seen mentioned was $750, and if one could build their own Case, then there you go, one could say you have a $3000 Unit for $750.
I think an optional simple Case is available complete for something like a $1050 total. I see if I can find the link about such. Still a great buy IMO,
Otherwise, I think the Sutherland KC Vibe can be gotten for about $750, perhaps even a bit less.
https://sutherlandphd.com/
I'm not sure at the moment, but think it then uses a Wall Wart, or an external Power Supply? Cost I thought I seen mentioned was $750, and if one could build their own Case, then there you go, one could say you have a $3000 Unit for $750.
I think an optional simple Case is available complete for something like a $1050 total. I see if I can find the link about such. Still a great buy IMO,
Otherwise, I think the Sutherland KC Vibe can be gotten for about $750, perhaps even a bit less.
https://sutherlandphd.com/
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Thunderbox
Super Member
Take a look at the Moon 110 LP V2. This is one highly adaptable and high performance phono pre.
My vote for the hypnotoad pre. Been using it almost a year now, and it's excellent. Very adjustable, lots of opamp options. The boards available in the build thread are as high quality as I've seen. You can even buy loaded boards now too I think...
There are also MC versions I believe.
radiohead
Active Member
Darlington Labs has been getting a lot of good reviews on audio forums. They offer three models well below your budget:
Graham Slee 
Audiofreak71
Audiofreak71
That's what I'm using, in fact listening to it as I type. These are very good, and I've seen them for about $1,399 but that is a bit over your stated budget.
But the other recommendations are very good also! Although my Sutherland 20/20 was a bit too cold-sounding for my taste....preferred the Jolida JD-9, which is a real sleeper and mine resides happily in my B system. It all comes down to what your ears like, and unfortunately the only way to find out is to choose one and ride it a while, see what you think.
Probably the most helpful suggestion I can make to you is to buy one you think you will like based on your research and order it from a store that will give you a period of time to see if you like it, like 60 days which is what Music Direct does (no affiliation, just admire their policies), and at the end of that time if you don't like it you can send it back, no questions asked, but you're out the return shipping.....so what can that be? $30, maybe $40 dollars and the whole time you have had the benefit of trying the thing in YOUR system and in YOUR room, so that makes a lot of sense to me!
Whatever you do, I'm excited for you so let us know how it goes....
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
Looking at MusicDirect, boy it seems that phono preamps have sure gone up in price, too. One manufacturer has it covered, though. They can sell you a phono preamp for just about any amount of money. They have eleven models listed:
KC Vibe $900
Insight $1400
Insight LPS $1750
20/20 $2200
20/20 LPS $2650
Little Loco $3800
Duo $4000
Duo LPS $4700
Phono Loco Balanced MC $8200
Phono Block Refined $10000
Argentum $14000
Why, I bet that if you called the factory and told them that you needed a $32000 phono preamp, they'd get one ready for you!
KC Vibe $900
Insight $1400
Insight LPS $1750
20/20 $2200
20/20 LPS $2650
Little Loco $3800
Duo $4000
Duo LPS $4700
Phono Loco Balanced MC $8200
Phono Block Refined $10000
Argentum $14000
Why, I bet that if you called the factory and told them that you needed a $32000 phono preamp, they'd get one ready for you!
Studio_D
Active Member
Darlington products look good but I can't understand why they offer three different models in such a narrow price range with so little to differentiate them from each other instead of including additional features like variable loading on the top model.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
What I've often noticed over the years, is that less expensive units, while they might sound excellent, in fact veritable giant killers, can usually have limitations as for loading and gain adjustments.
Thus, it can become somewhat unpredictable if any given Phono Stage will be a good match with various cartridges?
With Moving Magnet, and High Output Moving Coil Cartridges with an output at or greater than 1.0mv, they can happily live and mingle just fine at 47K Ohms Loading. Then the only worry and obstacle might be Gain compatibility.
Moving Magnet, what do most Phono Stages usually have as Gain Specs, from 40-47db commonly? Some may be outside the specs I've written-claimed possibly?
Fine for perhaps a Shure V-15, Vintage AT, and other MM's. Perhaps not workable though with a MC with output of say 2.2mv or less.
I've found in my personal instance, you can have 2 different Phono Stages of the same claimed Gain, but yet have different output. Meaning a variation of adjustment required at the Volume Dial of whatever that Component is hooked to.
My numbers I cite might not be precise, just wanted to mention such as an example. I had found it a bit troubling for myself some years back, in that to find or to "think" I would need a Phono Stage that would "cover all the bases" so to speak, and then see the price tag, I'd shake my head no, and say I like it, I like it a lot, but I just can't afford it.
Or wish to spend that much. And when I speak of how much, I'm talking $4,000 to $6,000 and up.
Without getting myself into too much trouble here, and if one only wishes to use Moving Magnet Cartridges, I think the choices become easier to find for both compatibility, as well as the costs on the pocketbook.
Generally speaking, a Phono Stage for MM, that is in the range of cost from $300-$500 should rightfully by all accounts handily out-perform Phono Stages found in virtually all Pre-Amps and Recievers.
Hoping my blabbing hasn't ruffled feathers.
Thus, it can become somewhat unpredictable if any given Phono Stage will be a good match with various cartridges?
With Moving Magnet, and High Output Moving Coil Cartridges with an output at or greater than 1.0mv, they can happily live and mingle just fine at 47K Ohms Loading. Then the only worry and obstacle might be Gain compatibility.
Moving Magnet, what do most Phono Stages usually have as Gain Specs, from 40-47db commonly? Some may be outside the specs I've written-claimed possibly?
Fine for perhaps a Shure V-15, Vintage AT, and other MM's. Perhaps not workable though with a MC with output of say 2.2mv or less.
I've found in my personal instance, you can have 2 different Phono Stages of the same claimed Gain, but yet have different output. Meaning a variation of adjustment required at the Volume Dial of whatever that Component is hooked to.
My numbers I cite might not be precise, just wanted to mention such as an example. I had found it a bit troubling for myself some years back, in that to find or to "think" I would need a Phono Stage that would "cover all the bases" so to speak, and then see the price tag, I'd shake my head no, and say I like it, I like it a lot, but I just can't afford it.
Or wish to spend that much. And when I speak of how much, I'm talking $4,000 to $6,000 and up.
Without getting myself into too much trouble here, and if one only wishes to use Moving Magnet Cartridges, I think the choices become easier to find for both compatibility, as well as the costs on the pocketbook.
Generally speaking, a Phono Stage for MM, that is in the range of cost from $300-$500 should rightfully by all accounts handily out-perform Phono Stages found in virtually all Pre-Amps and Recievers.
Hoping my blabbing hasn't ruffled feathers.
VintageVibe
Active Member
Absolutely agree! And I use it with the 103r which GPJ mentioned. It's a definitely a "next level" addition. The combo is hard to beat for under 1K.
radiohead
Active Member
Yes, makes me wonder if I could tell the difference between them on my modest set up.
oldtexasdog
Well-Known Member
+ one on that! or a used MS Nova II
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Although I never heard a MS Phonomena II or Nova to comment further, I sure do like the great range of adjustability available on both Units!
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
The OP has two tables listed in his sig line, neither would be a good match for he DL-103R (low compliance), but I agree 100% on the DL-301 MkII (high compliance). I am running one on a tonearm with effective mass of 8g and love it. It would be a great match for either of the OP's tables. I speak from experience with the DP-37F and the 8.5g effective mass of the arm on his MMF 5 is almost the same as the 8g mass of the arm on my Harman Kardon T60.