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What's Better: Wharfedale W70 or Bozak E-302?

62sunbeam

Raconteur
Considering all perimeters which is a better speaker the early Wharfedale W70 or the Bozak E-302 with ceramic drivers, aluminum tweeters and Tobin mods with either modern or NOS PIO caps?

When I say "all parameters" I mean anything you can think of like dynamics, accuracy, bass response, imaging, sound stage and over all listening experience.

Thanks

Eric
 
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Too close to call. I had until recently a set of the original W70s and Urban 302a. I also had a set of the Symphonys. I am downsizing so the Symphonys very sadly had to go. The 302a was original and the W70s did have a new pio cap.

As they are so close to size for this contest sound was the standard as which would stay, not size. I used several amps including Sony, Philips, HK, Sherwood and, Yamaha. Sources were fm, records, cassettes and cd. Music preference was classical, chamber, jazz, male and female vocals and, solo acoustic instruments.

To make a long story and test short, over time a Sherwoods S9500c became the standard test amp for all testing as it, along with the matching S3300 tuner had outclassed all others. Rated at 20 watts per channel, it was at higher end of the recommended power range for the W70s and near the bottom of the range recommended by Bozak for the 302a. It has enough juice to easily run both at my average listening levels and have sufficient juice remaining to not compress the dynamics. Average juice used was .004 on the W70s and some 2x that on the Bozaks. This made sense based on the advertised efficiency rates of each.

The big difference is overall sound. The W70 sounded like it was more effortless producing the music. It also had more slightly more coherence that the Bozak in the transition from the mid range to either the tweeter or woofer. The bass on the Bozak was a little more forceful and showed the W70 had a very slight well, hard to describe. Think lf looking through a window that was absolutely clean vs one that had the slightest bit of haze on it. The Bozak mid range driver was and imho is still one of the best mid range drivers. The W70 midrange however on some of the selections did better, no clear winner. The SuperTweeter in the W70 is much talked about and worshipped by those whom find a cone tweeter to be the way to heaven and with good reason. Rudy, as good as he did in developing a metal cone driver, he was the first to get it right, needed more time to get his tweeter to be as great as his midrsnge.

I finally threw my hands up. I loved the 302a for its sound and had a bias towards it as it used the same drivers and my Symphonys and sounded like a slightly smaller version of them. However, the W70s sounded so close to the much earlier owned W70Ds I owned in the late '60s and fell in love with. There were times I really thought about taking them back from my brother to whom I had given them to. I really could not decide for they were equally as good to my ears and heart. I thought about stacking them as a way to keep them but, had a problem.

I had bought the 302a system that included the utility cabinet. I had decided it would not be included in my new system so, it was to go. However, as these complete sets are rare and this set had some interesting history I was reluctant to break them up. It became the deciding point. The 302a set would go, ending some 26+ years of Bozak ownership and a set of Bozaks being my main speakers. If not for the utility cabinet, I would be still likely be running the competition.

My Bozaks ran stock crossovers and I have not heard Pat's modded one so can not definitively comment. While most say there is some improvement I have not read any saying the originals were rebuilt and those compared to Pat's. I have read some found no discernible difference. I am not sure how much of a difference Pat's crossover would have to make for the 302a to be a clear winner.

The Bozaks have a more aggressive forward presentation, say row f-h while the W70s seem more cohesive and relaxing or laid back interpretation lf say rows m-q, if that means anything to you.

Good luck, both are worth sitting as main speakers but, these will equally just as likely addict you to their sound and against your will and all reason force you to want more and bigger. Soon you will be reading about the W90 with its several versions and lusting for a set or worse, digging through all, the Bozaks driver versions and reading about the very large 11 driver Symphony or even larger Concert Grand housing 4 12" woofers and 8 tweeters. Plus 2 mids in each cabinet that can substitute as a coffin. Seems few of us devotees of either brand escape this incurable disease.
 
i had w70s refurbished with pio caps. i also have recapped bozak b501s, which are like 302As except the cabinet is larger and more vertical and the crossover incorporates the tobin mods (so i'm told).

after a lot of switching back and forth between these 2 sets of speakers i decided to keep the bozaks. after playing around with modern full-range drivers like fostex, audio nirvanas, and visatons i find i prefer sound that is detailed and uncolored. brian's "row f-h" versus "rows m-q" may be as good a way of describing it as any. the w70s seemed slightly veiled to me; could be someone else's warm, etc.

my w70s had radio people teak cabinets that i refinished and i added stainless legs. overall they looked stunning--MCM heaven! i just didn't have room for both.

(now the battle is between the bozaks and some vintage allied catalog cabinets with jensen 15" triaxials....)
 
The Symphonies take up less floor space than the 302's so I would vote to keep the 4000's and part with everything else. Unless you have Z tweeters or a Tobin mod the Wharfadale probably has extended HF and LF over the 302, but I bet the 302 has better everything else.
 
i had w70s refurbished with pio caps. i also have recapped bozak b501s, which are like 302As except the cabinet is larger and more vertical and the crossover incorporates the tobin mods (so i'm told).

after a lot of switching back and forth between these 2 sets of speakers i decided to keep the bozaks. after playing around with modern full-range drivers like fostex, audio nirvanas, and visatons i find i prefer sound that is detailed and uncolored. brian's "row f-h" versus "rows m-q" may be as good a way of describing it as any. the w70s seemed slightly veiled to me; could be someone else's warm, etc.

my w70s had radio people teak cabinets that i refinished and i added stainless legs. overall they looked stunning--MCM heaven! i just didn't have room for both.

(now the battle is between the bozaks and some vintage allied catalog cabinets with jensen 15" triaxials....)

What kind of amp did you use for the W70's (and the Bozaks for that matter)?

I agree about what Brian said. I'm a row M guy myself (unless the venue has great sound and/or a great sound-engineer, in which case I would likely still be wearing earplugs). The '60's Bozaks are VERY-coherent speakers, so I knew it would be neck and neck. But the Wharfedales have that uber-musicality that draws you in like a tractor beam, and between that and their low-volume abilities, they really felt like home, especially after doing the oil caps and retubing/refurbing the Fisher. They are completely-shout-free now. You just want to swim in it. Here's a video I made of my W90's after the most-recent round of adjustments (Please excuse the poor lighting and what not... Planning to move my W90's to much better digs with a room that's WAY-more-hi-fi-friendly... I have to move the ottoman out of the room to get any sense of depth). https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=izlGluuOb44
 
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hey GT,

they were switched back and forth on the same rig. think i tried tube preamp (modded PAS 3) with SS amp and (maybe) my heathkit tube mono blocks.
 
hey GT,

they were switched back and forth on the same rig. think i tried tube preamp (modded PAS 3) with SS amp and (maybe) my heathkit tube mono blocks.

Gotcha'... I was just curious... Those early Wharfedales being so-tube-friendly and all...

One area where I'm interested to know how the two speakers fare against each other is classic-rock. When I pair the W90's (or W60's) with my Dual 1019 on tube-cut '60's vinyl, it is downright-intoxicating. I imagine the Dual Idlers sound great with Bozaks, and I know Bozaks are good for '60's music, but I'm curious where the lines are drawn. That transition-period Stones stuff, the last of the tube-recorded/tube-cut material, is too-good for words through an 800C/1019/W90 setup, and you'll never duplicate it with digital because of the way the Dual arranges &the soundstage. It's wider and WAY-more-organic-sounding ("Honky Tonk Women" is frigging orgasmic). Huge synergy factor between those three brands, so I'm interested in how Dual and Bozak fare together.

Wharfedales are definitely more-laid-back than Bozaks... Predominantly-so... More-easy-going, which is what I like... Bozaks are a bit more-forward-sounding... That said, Bozaks are still very-laid-back though... But those early W70's that Brian has are easily apartment-worthy, at least with a Fisher (Fisher tube gear is the essence of non-shouty... Great for jazz). The W70 cab is just the right size where it should give you enough weight and depth while still being small enough to make it easy to reach the sweet spot.
 
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What makes my situation difficult is the fact that something seems not 100% in that the low end still seams somewhat restricted in the W70s compared to the mids and highs and my Bozaks have mismatched drivers and crossovers so a direct comparison isn't possible.

Putting money into one or the other might require selling one of the two pairs.

Thanks for all the insight guys.

Eric
 
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