What's my boggle with phono preamps?

[63pontiacgp]

In the almost 13 years I've been on AK I have lost count of how many phono preamps I've had. Parks Audio, Bottlehead, Schiit, Cambridge, Decware, Pro-Ject, Art, Thorens, the list goes on and on. I'd bet I've had well over 50, both tube and solid state. Initially I'm thrilled but something ultimately is disappointing about them, hiss, hum, noise.
My main system remains unchanged.
I'm done d*cking aound. I bought a Darlington MP-7 for the Pioneer and a Sota Pyxi for the Dual. I must say they are both quiet and I'm quite pleased with them.
Time to just listen.
End of rant.
Thanks for listening.

Mike

 

[justjed2]

I have an MP-7, it's plenty quiet, and it sounds really good. The iFi Zen Phono is also very quiet, especially with the upgraded power supply.

 

[Blue Shadow]

I must say they are both quiet and I'm quite pleased with them.

Please report back in this winter as to what your next change is. I only say this because being on ak is not a group that helps you stick with the gear you have but supports the acquisition of a different unit in most cases. Really hope you can achieve the goal you want, not changing or finding ones that don't any hum, hiss or noise.

We have evaluated phono amps here at times and I'm sticking with the one that came in second to a PP2 years ago. The PP2 was changed out for a much better built PP2 and that owner is happy with his upgrade.

 

[wyn palmer]

Please report back in this winter as to what your next change is. I only say this because being on ak is not a group that helps you stick with the gear you have but supports the acquisition of a different unit in most cases. Really hope you can achieve the goal you want, not changing or finding ones that don't any hum, hiss or noise.

We have evaluated phono amps here at times and I'm sticking with the one that came in second to a PP2 years ago. The PP2 was changed out for a much better built PP2 and that owner is happy with his upgrade.

The Pyxi is quite new but based on a DIY design that was available on AK. It, and the Darlington share a similar fundamental goal, even if the approach is quite different.
The Pyxi has done extremely well in comparative listening sessions, is quite well built, and unlike most audio gear has real specifications and is tested to them, and the specifications actually matter- they're part of the philosophy.

 

[Mr Boochie]

In the almost 13 years I've been on AK I have lost count of how many phono preamps I've had. Parks Audio, Bottlehead, Schiit, Cambridge, Decware, Pro-Ject, Art, Thorens, the list goes on and on. I'd bet I've had well over 50, both tube and solid state. Initially I'm thrilled but something ultimately is disappointing about them, hiss, hum, noise.
My main system remains unchanged.
I'm done d*cking aound. I bought a Darlington MP-7 for the Pioneer and a Sota Pyxi for the Dual. I must say they are both quiet and I'm quite pleased with them.
Time to just listen.
End of rant.
Thanks for listening.

Mike

I've found that sometimes the background noise is due to the wall warts that come with the units. I've gone to either industrial or hospital-grade PSU and the noise is significantly less.

Some unit's PSU have 20mVAC or more riding on top of the DC voltage. When PSU measures 5mVAC or less --- the PSU is quiet.

The layout of your wiring from the turntable to the phono pre-amp (including power supplies) need to be arranged for the lowest noise. I listen to headphones and move cables around to get the lowest background noise. Then, loosely fix the cables with plastic wrap ties. It's a headache, but it does work --- hopefully for only one time.

 

[63pontiacgp]

I've found that sometimes the background noise is due to the wall warts that come with the units. I've gone to either industrial or hospital-grade PSU and the noise is significantly less.

Some unit's PSU have 20mVAC or more riding on top of the DC voltage. When PSU measures 5mVAC or less --- the PSU is quiet.

The layout of your wiring from the turntable to the phono pre-amp (including power supplies) need to be arranged for the lowest noise. I listen to headphones and move cables around to get the lowest background noise. Then, loosely fix the cables with plastic wrap ties. It's a headache, but it does work --- hopefully for only one time.

I think I'm good now. These 2 new preamps are very quiet and are excellent performers. I really like the "look" of exposed tube preamps and I believe the tube phono preamps tend to be a little noisier. I'm settling back into a happy place again.

Mike

 

[wyn palmer]

I've found that sometimes the background noise is due to the wall warts that come with the units. I've gone to either industrial or hospital-grade PSU and the noise is significantly less.

Some unit's PSU have 20mVAC or more riding on top of the DC voltage. When PSU measures 5mVAC or less --- the PSU is quiet.

The layout of your wiring from the turntable to the phono pre-amp (including power supplies) need to be arranged for the lowest noise. I listen to headphones and move cables around to get the lowest background noise. Then, loosely fix the cables with plastic wrap ties. It's a headache, but it does work --- hopefully for only one time.

The Pyxi wall wart is 14v AC, correctly rated for the unit. The DC levels are produced on the board- half wave rectified AC (with a shunt snubber network designed specifically for the transformer used) plus lots of storage caps then a so called "capacitor multiplier" (which is not how IC design engineers describe it) followed by a pair of high performance, properly capacitively "loaded", IC regulators and properly filtered supplies at the opamps- which have extremely high power supply rejection over the entire audio band.
No change in wall wart is or will ever be required. No upgrade adds performance, unless something is radically wrong with the wall wart, and Sota tests the units to weed out the occasional "bad apple".

 

[63pontiacgp]

The Pyxi wall wart is 14v AC, correctly rated for the unit. The DC levels are produced on the board- half wave rectified AC (with a shunt snubber network designed specifically for the transformer used) plus lots of storage caps then a so called "capacitor multiplier" (which is not how IC design engineers describe it) followed by a pair of high performance, properly capacitively "loaded", IC regulators and properly filtered supplies at the opamps- which have extremely high power supply rejection over the entire audio band.
No change in wall wart is or will ever be required. No upgrade adds performance, unless something is radically wrong with the wall wart, and Sota tests the units to weed out the occasional "bad apple".

The Darlington also uses an AC at 24V wall wart.

Mike

 

[MisterDK]

Mike, If if you’re still not satisfied and get an urge to look at phono preamps again, check out those from Klyne. Model 7PX3.5
RIAA Phono Preamplifier is one to do a comparative listen to. I’ve listened to an older one a friend has and it’s amazingly nice. Not cheap though.

Duane

 

[Mr Boochie]

I think I'm good now. These 2 new preamps are very quiet and are excellent performers. I really like the "look" of exposed tube preamps and I believe the tube phono preamps tend to be a little noisier. I'm settling back into a happy place again.

Mike

Tubed phono pre-amp is prolly noisier background level than solid-state.

Also, the LP is a big factor. Some seem to have been mastered with more floor noise than others. And recently mastered doesn't always mean low noise.

Flat EQ. Tubed phono pre-amp. No noise reduction. Speakers mic'ed.

UB40 -Tears From My Eyes. Well mastered and pressed.

O'Jays- Use Ta Be My Girl. Some odd background noise on lead-in & outro on the tune.

 

[DavidTT]

In the almost 13 years I've been on AK I have lost count of how many phono preamps I've had. Parks Audio, Bottlehead, Schiit, Cambridge, Decware, Pro-Ject, Art, Thorens, the list goes on and on. I'd bet I've had well over 50, both tube and solid state. Initially I'm thrilled but something ultimately is disappointing about them, hiss, hum, noise.
My main system remains unchanged.
I'm done d*cking aound. I bought a Darlington MP-7 for the Pioneer and a Sota Pyxi for the Dual. I must say they are both quiet and I'm quite pleased with them.
Time to just listen.
End of rant.
Thanks for listening.

Mike

If you've moved so many there is no reason to think that the MP-7 or Pyxi will necessarily do it for you. Perhaps you just love swapping in and out phono amps? Nothing wrong with that at all.

I've tried a bunch of them too. It's practically a rite of passage for the gear-obsessed hobbyist. They're (1) easy to acquire, (2) easy to ship, (3) easy to insert and remove from a system. Like potato chips for the inveterate hobbyist.

In my case, I did not prefer the MP-7 at all, having bought it when the hype around Darlington was peaking around the usual forums. I later up wound with two phono amps that I've kept for a while now, a Rega MM and a Hagerman tube model (think it's the Cornet 3?). They both do well enough to have quenched my thirst for the time being, although the Hagerman is noisier than the Rega. Really, the Rega with a Rega turntable is a very nice combo.

Truth is that many of them have been fine, great even. It's still fun and easy to try new ones though.

 

[charles 1973]

Am I missing something here. I've never heard hiss, hum, or noise from the preamp when playing an album through my Tonar-Vinyline 4189 (AKA Pro-Ject Phono Box) phono stage. They sell for about $150 US. Perhaps something is amiss with your setup. It may not be the last word in resolution or dynamics, But even this budget phono stage is dead quite. Perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised though. Pro-Ject makes some of the best Phono preamps for the money IMO. I like some Rega ones too.

 

[Montycat]

Should I check your garbage bin for any discards?

 

[justjed2]

Everybody has different preferences, that's why there are so many designs. And they all do the exact same thing, they just do it differently. For me, the MP-7 is a keeper.

 

[MisterDK]

Am I missing something here. I've never heard hiss, hum, or noise from the preamp when playing an album through my…

Sometimes you don’t realize what you’re missing - until you’ve listened to quite a few with your reference records. Even then, of the several you listened to and chose from, the chosen one may not sound as wonderful to you after you’ve had it for a while.

Anyway, it’s really hard to make perfect choices based on internet opinion. Sure would be nice to have audio / stereo stores all over, like we had “back in the day”. Federated Group was a favorite of mine. If only I had money then…

BTW - I’m still pretty happy with my 834 clone but think it’s time to shop for new tubes..

Duane

 

[markd51]

Mucho spinning of Wheels. Go big, and don't look back.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Should I check your garbage bin for any discards?

"Recycled Stereos." Has a nice ring to it.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Sometimes you don’t realize what you’re missing - until you’ve listened to quite a few with your reference records. Even then, of the several you listened to and chose from, the chosen one may not sound as wonderful to you after you’ve had it for a while.

Anyway, it’s really hard to make perfect choices based on internet opinion. Sure would be nice to have audio / stereo stores all over, like we had “back in the day”. Federated Group was a favorite of mine. If only I had money then…

BTW - I’m still pretty happy with my 834 clone but think it’s time to shop for new tubes..

Duane

Yeah. I think it's good to avoid too much "gearitis." Just get something and be happy with it for a while --- like a few years.

 

[MisterDK]

Yeah. I think it's good to avoid too much "gearitis." Just get something and be happy with it for a while --- like a few years.

I’m a poor old guy these days - or I’d probably be gear swapping as well.

 

[63pontiacgp]

Am I missing something here. I've never heard hiss, hum, or noise from the preamp when playing an album through my Tonar-Vinyline 4189 (AKA Pro-Ject Phono Box) phono stage. They sell for about $150 US. Perhaps something is amiss with your setup. It may not be the last word in resolution or dynamics, But even this budget phono stage is dead quite. Perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised though. Pro-Ject makes some of the best Phono preamps for the money IMO. I like some Rega ones too.

I don't think anythings amiss, my system has always been dead quiet when using my DAC. My speakers are very efficient and I think the mostly tube preamps I've used have been the issue for me. Some people would be OK, I'm maybe just really picky.

I should say that that recently I did some testing between a Schiit Mani, U-Turn Pluto, and an 18 dollar Pyle PP999. The worst was the Schiit. The Pro-Ject I tried some years ago was tube.

Mike