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What's the story these days on the C20?

cicada_shell

AK Subscriber
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My impression is years ago the pecking order went C22>C11>C20, largely because of the C20's complexity. But now it seems a great number of C20s have gone over to Japan. I'm supposing because there might be more enthusiasm for very old record media over there and the C20 has a lot of flexibility for record compensation.

When I first starting looking at this stuff, which wasn't that long ago, it seemed the C20 could sell for around half what a 22 would bring, but now they're all about the same (maybe 15% or so higher on 22 prices). You read old threads on here and people are just trashing the 20. It seems people feel different about them these days. I've never heard one, though the late-version with the handsome orange lighting and glass faceplate (rather than plastic in the early ones) always interested me. Has there been some re-evaluation of the 20? What's the contemporary opinion on the 11/22 vs 20 debate?
 
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I have 2 Early C20's, I run one with my MC60's and Classic Audio T3's. The other with my MC30's and Hartsfields. I have had MANY preamps. I did like my DeHaviland UV3 with remote slightly better. Have tried others. I also have enjoyed a few of the Georg Wright Preamps., and almost always have one as a spare or different flavor. The are getting very hard to come by though.

Opinion:

C11 - Fast Neutral-ish, detailed. In my opinion, doesn't compete with the C20 or C22.
C20 - very rich, organic, tube bloom galore, makes vocals and acoustic instruments magical and deeply textured, weighty. A little less sparkle on top than other 2. Also has variable loudness control that I like lots.
C22 - A combination of the C11 and C20. More $$. Not sure you could hear the difference unless you had them and tried them back to back.

Pair with the MC60's and MC30's , with horn loaded speakers, at my house, to my ears, the C20 is the clear winner.

I think the C20 could sound faster, more modern, with some tube rolling but that's not my preference.

YMMV
 
The C20's main drawback is its quadruple pot VC w/ integral off/on switch which is said to be notorious for L/R tracking issues and being difficult to repair.

Judging from eBay SOLD listings, the C22 still seems to command ~ 25% premium over the C20.
 
The C20's main drawback is its quadruple pot VC w/ integral off/on switch which is said to be notorious for L/R tracking issues and being difficult to repair.

Judging from eBay SOLD listings, the C22 still seems to command ~ 25% premium over the C20.
Is replacing all the pots with new ones a done thing? What other design shortcomings are there and are there reasonable solutions?
 
C11 - Fast Neutral-ish, detailed. In my opinion, doesn't compete with the C20 or C22.
C20 - very rich, organic, tube bloom galore, makes vocals and acoustic instruments magical and deeply textured, weighty. A little less sparkle on top than other 2. Also has variable loudness control that I like lots.
C22 - A combination of the C11 and C20. More $$. Not sure you could hear the difference unless you had them and tried them back to back.
If there’s less sparkle, sounds like I’d rrrreeeeaalllly need those custom crossovers for the Paragon to counteract that.
 
If I were running vintage preamps, I'd go straight to the Marantz 7.
I like the Marantz 7, but all of Marantz's tube amps are visually very unappealing to me. If I had everything built into a nice wall unit, then I'd consider. Also painted my 301 black to match the Mac gear. I'm committed to the aesthetic, alas!
 
BTW, When I say less sparkle, I think that's a good thing on JBL's. All my drivers are JBL rebuilt by John Wolff, with the exception of mt TAD 1602 woofers in my T3's that also came from John. It's easy for JBL's to get lean, C20 curbs that, IMHO
 
BTW, When I say less sparkle, I think that's a good thing on JBL's. All my drivers are JBL rebuilt by John Wolff, with the exception of mt TAD 1602 woofers in my T3's that also came from John. It's easy for JBL's to get lean, C20 curbs that, IMHO
Good to know. I was going to send him my LE15s.
 
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