Where to get genuine Thorens TD-125II belt. Standard belt not working right.

[keilau]

In my archived Thorens information, I have the following Parts number Z6800574 information:

Description: Flat Belt, Medium Width, Rubber, .187" (3/16") to .203" (13/64") (4.8-5.2mm) FBM 20.0" (50.8cm)

I ordered from a #6800574 belt from Rutherford Audio because they are mentioned as a Thorens parts dealer in several audio forum sites including Audiokama and Vinyl Engine. The Thorens TD-125II speed control board was recently tuned up with the old belt. Everything was in good order and I installed the new belt from Rutherford Audio as a routine after using the old one for 6 years. I immediately noticed that the turntable slowed down and I have to turn up the speed knob 1/4 way to the right. An indication that the new belt had some slippage. Put back the old belt and everything was back to normal. The new belt measured 524 mm immediately after removal from the turntable. 24 hours later, it shrinked to 510 mm. An indication of too much stretching.

I am a Thorens user for a long time with a TD-160 and a TD-125II. I used to order belt from German dealer directly, but can't find them anymore. I understand Thorens changed belt supplier that uses different material now. It seems to be a disaster. I suspect Rutherford Audio recently received a bad batch of Standard belts from the distributor.

I contacted QAudio and HiFi Heaven and asked the Thorens belt. They recommend the #6800574 standard belt which is 0.9 x 4 x 496 mm. The old belt is 0.7 mm thick and 5 mm wide. Most important of all, the belt must NOT stretch excessively.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Try Vinyl Nirvana, or Thakker in Germany.

 

[keilau]

Try Vinyl Nirvana, or Thakker in Germany.

Thank you for the suggestion. I am familiar with them. But after the poor experience at Rutherford Audio, I am looking for recent purchase experience instead of trying more of the "reliable sources".

In the good old days, genuine Thorens belt are reliable in performance and last many years. I was more than happy to pay extra to get genuine belt instead of after market ones. But it is no longer true. The lack of information at the German Thorens home site about legacy turntable support is not encouraging. Do they still have an exclusive importer for the North America region?

 

[tnsilver]

Thanks for bringing this up. I was recently looking for William Thakker on eBay.com and couldn't find their shop. When I finally found their Europe shop, they only had Thakker belts (I needed TD-124) and the Thorens belts were out of stock. There maybe something going on with the new Thorens belts. FWIW the length of the stock #6800574 belt for the TD-160/TD-125 etc... was always controversial as it's extremely difficult to measure correctly and the measurement varies with many suppliers, but it appears to had always been 0.9mm thick and 4mm wide (not 5mm). AFAIK 496mm length was the official specs but for some reason it always measures more... Maybe @ddarch can shed some light on what's going on...

 

[ltbetty]

I use all genuine Thorens belts from Dave at Vinyl Nirvana.

 

[keilau]

Thanks for bringing this up. I was recently looking for William Thakker on eBay.com and couldn't find their shop. When I finally found their Europe shop, they only had Thakker belts (I needed TD-124) and the Thorens belts were out of stock. There maybe something going on with the new Thorens belts. FWIW the length of the stock #6800574 belt for the TD-160/TD-125 etc... was always controversial as it's extremely difficult to measure correctly and the measurement varies with many suppliers, but it appears to had always been 0.9mm thick and 4mm wide (not 5mm). AFAIK 496mm length was the official specs but for some reason it always measures more... Maybe @ddarch can shed some light on what's going on...

The specification for the Z6800574 belt for the TD-160/TD-125 etc. was 0.7 mm thick and 4.8-5.2 mm wide for many years. Do you know when it was changed to the following table?

 

[tnsilver]

^ With that said, I'm still getting the vibe you're on to something. Thakker being out of stock of #6800574 genuine Thorens belts is not a healthy sign. However, the exact belt dimensions and material is most critical for the TD-14X/150/16X variants. The TD-125 (both marks) are less fussy about their belts - as the pitch control can compensate for any irregularities. This is valid for worn out stock belts and for many knock-off belts. It's just less sensitive. Having the 125 pitch control wheel off center and closer to the left or to the right for the correct speed - can be electronically adjusted and offset to be centered again, so this is just a cosmetic issue. For the TD-160 variants, I'm afraid it's way more complicated so we really need to find out what's going on with the new 6800574 belts.

I use all genuine Thorens belts from Dave at Vinyl Nirvana.

yep, Dave was always a trustworthy genuine Thorens belt supplier so if anything recent at the new Thorens chain of suppliers goes on with the new belts - he should know.

 

[keilau]

I'm sorry, I can only see some printed data in the PDF file. It's not specifications unless it's specified (preferably by the mfgr) by an authorized party. Having it in print is literally just that. The specs I used are from earlier this year on a previous post on the Thorens owners group thread. IIRC I've researched the different suppliers for specs at the time. Between those who published specs, a couple of them, including Rutherford Audio, were in agreement, so I've used that. Rutherford still has those specs here. I can't recall who the 2nd one was. Mayby Vinyl Nirvana, maybe Thakker - maybe someone else. Thorens never published those specs so unless it's by someone trustworthy or official - it's just print.

I captured the table in PDF from the HiFi Heaven website. Rutherford Audio and Q Audio use the same table. And all these 3 outfit claim to be authorized Thorens dealer. Where can I find something that is currently official from Thorens?

 

[keilau]

^ With that said, I'm still getting the vibe you're on to something. Thakker being out of stock of #6800574 genuine Thorens belts is not a healthy sign. However, the exact belt dimensions and material is most critical for the TD-14X/150/16X variants. The TD-125 (both marks) are less fussy about their belts - as the pitch control can compensate for any irregularities. This is valid for worn out stock belts and for many knock-off belts. It's just less sensitive. Having the 125 pitch control wheel off center and closer to the left or to the right for the correct speed - can be electronically adjusted and offset to be centered again, so this is just a cosmetic issue. For the TD-160 variants, I'm afraid it's way more complicated so we really need to find out what's going on with the new 6800574 belts.

I believe that the TD-125 pitch control is for fine tuning the speed, NOT for compensation of inferior belt.

I ordered from a #6800574 belt from Rutherford Audio because they are mentioned as a Thorens parts dealer in several audio forum sites including Audiokama and Vinyl Engine. The Thorens TD-125II speed control board was recently tuned up with the old belt. Everything was in good order and I installed the new belt from Rutherford Audio as a routine after using the old one for 6 years. I immediately noticed that the turntable slowed down and I have to turn up the speed knob 1/4 way to the right. An indication that the new belt had some slippage. Put back the old belt and everything was back to normal. The new belt measured 524 mm immediately after removal from the turntable. 24 hours later, it shrinked to 510 mm. An indication of too much stretching.

Even if I can speed up the plater, it is an indication that the new belt had some slippage.

I'm afraid it's way more complicated so we really need to find out what's going on with the new 6800574 belts.

For the TD-125 too!

 

[keilau]

Thanks for bringing this up. I was recently looking for William Thakker on eBay.com and couldn't find their shop. When I finally found their Europe shop, they only had Thakker belts (I needed TD-124) and the Thorens belts were out of stock. There maybe something going on with the new Thorens belts. FWIW the length of the stock #6800574 belt for the TD-160/TD-125 etc... was always controversial as it's extremely difficult to measure correctly and the measurement varies with many suppliers, but it appears to had always been 0.9mm thick and 4mm wide (not 5mm). AFAIK 496mm length was the official specs but for some reason it always measures more... Maybe @ddarch can shed some light on what's going on...

Try this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thorens-TD...984981&hash=item1cd3d7cb3a:g:LcAAAOSwqaBdEL9W

 

[tnsilver]

^ yes, this looks like the Thakker belt that's supposedly identical to the Thorens logo belt and was manufactured at the same place for Thakker. The Thorens belts are not in stock at Thakker, so this may be old stock with the same parameters as the original Thorens belts. Unfortunately it is not sold by Thakker - so the hell with it. I'm not in the mood for new dealers and suppliers with possible changes in the old Thorens supply chains going on behind the scene.

I believe that the TD-125 pitch control is for fine tuning the speed, NOT for compensation of inferior belt.

Yes it is, but the main tuning depends on the various trimmers for the Wein bridge oscillator and it can be tweaked. Trust me on this one if you're unfamiliar with the TD-125 electronics. I've done it many times. Consistent belt slippage can be tamed. The problem is with the real turd knock-off belts were it's so low quality, the stretch is inconsistent throughout the entire belt length.

 

[twiiii]

I get mine every 5 years from Audio Classics in Vestal New York.

 

[ddarch]

Fyi, for better or worse, the belt I am selling is the exact same as Rutherford. Many of you know I work with these tables for a living. Every day I am fitting these belts to tables for restoration or customisation. I noticed a couple years back, the white logo went from "Thorens Drive Belt" to "Thorens". Besides that, I have noticed ZERO change in fit or function. Table after table, the belt goes on, and if it was working previously, it also works with the new belt. I don't have to adjust the pulley angle or height. I don't have to mess with the belt changing arm. This mechanism can be EXTREMELY finicky. The belts currently sold by me and by Rutherford navigate that flawlessly. COULD Rutherford have had a bad batch? Sure. However, overall, they are a solidly manufactured part with which I have zero qualms in using/selling. If there was an issue, someone like me, who sells and uses DOZENS monthly, would have been the first to notice and complain. D

 

[Audiofreak71]

I use the Vinyl Nirvana Thorens belt for my 125 and its excellent, no slipping, keeps solid speed, highly recommended.

Audiofreak71

 

[ehoove]

All mine came from Q audio, very pleased.
Regards,
Jim

 

[Ilikevinyl]

I use all genuine Thorens belts from Dave at Vinyl Nirvana.

Get my belt from Dave too. His Cork & Rubber platter mat sounds great on my TD-160, highly recommended!

 

[Ilikevinyl]

Fyi, for better or worse, the belt I am selling is the exact same as Rutherford. Many of you know I work with these tables for a living. Every day I am fitting these belts to tables for restoration or customisation. I noticed a couple years back, the white logo went from "Thorens Drive Belt" to "Thorens". Besides that, I have noticed ZERO change in fit or function. Table after table, the belt goes on, and if it was working previously, it also works with the new belt. I don't have to adjust the pulley angle or height. I don't have to mess with the belt changing arm. This mechanism can be EXTREMELY finicky. The belts currently sold by me and by Rutherford navigate that flawlessly. COULD Rutherford have had a bad batch? Sure. However, overall, they are a solidly manufactured part with which I have zero qualms in using/selling. If there was an issue, someone like me, who sells and uses DOZENS monthly, would have been the first to notice and complain. D

I took out the belt changing mechanism completely on my TD-160. Less is better! Heard a very slight bass increase without it. I only use my TD-160 for playing 33 albums. Using a SME 3009 Improved arm, so I also took out the complete Thorens cueing mechanism too.

 

[keilau]

Fyi, for better or worse, the belt I am selling is the exact same as Rutherford. Many of you know I work with these tables for a living. Every day I am fitting these belts to tables for restoration or customisation. I noticed a couple years back, the white logo went from "Thorens Drive Belt" to "Thorens". Besides that, I have noticed ZERO change in fit or function. Table after table, the belt goes on, and if it was working previously, it also works with the new belt. I don't have to adjust the pulley angle or height. I don't have to mess with the belt changing arm. This mechanism can be EXTREMELY finicky. The belts currently sold by me and by Rutherford navigate that flawlessly. COULD Rutherford have had a bad batch? Sure. However, overall, they are a solidly manufactured part with which I have zero qualms in using/selling. If there was an issue, someone like me, who sells and uses DOZENS monthly, would have been the first to notice and complain. D

Dave, I got an reply yesterday from Rutherford Audio quoting one of their customer which, I suspect, is you.

OK, I asked one of our long-time customers what he knows because he has decades of Thorens experience and runs a very successful business restoring and repairing vintage Thorens tables, always using standard belts bought from us for the past 5+ years.
**His response:
I know that just a few years ago, they all read "Thorens belt drive" and now they just say "Thorens." So, you might infer they changed manufacturers. No definitive proof though. In terms of operation, they function exactly as they did before. I am not finding I need to pre-stretch them or alter the pulley or the belt changing arm. This mechanism on the vintage models is VERY particular...and when I am replacing a WORKING genuine older Thorens with one of our new belts, they invariably work...flawlessly...with zero adjustment.
In terms of "bad rubber," I am really not an expert. I know, working with them as new, which is what I am doing 99% of the time, they have a nice supple feeling. Ironically, the one used "Thorens belt drive" belt I just used to confirm the old printing has an awful feel...stiff and very stretched. (I have no idea of its age and use)
So, no... I have not had an issue with returns/complaints. There's a small possibility the usage life is shorter than previous belt versions. It'll take another year or two to confirm that.
If you do ask the Thorens supplier from Europe...I'd love to hear what they say to this,
PS There's a company named Thakker in Europe. They are selling theirs cheaper over there...and they are always well-reviewed. I always assumed they were having them made at the same place the genuine are made???**

Attached picture of marking on the belt that I received from Rutherford Audio. It is very stretched to 521 mm as I measured this morning. I suspect that they sent me an old used belt? It sounds so much like you described.

First, the belt does read "Thorens belt drive" on mine, NOT just Thorens. Second, the real problem is the excessive stretching of the belt causing the turntable to slow down. Making the belt useless. It should be elastic and return to the original length when removed from the turntable. I asked Rutherford Audio repeatedly to measure the belts that have in stock to see if they meet their description of 0.9 x 4 x 496 mm. They never responded.


I suspect that the core of the problem is that, after changing ownership, Thorens is no longer interested in supporting the legacy product. There is no reason for Thorens to narrow the belt from 5 mm to 4 mm. Dave, do you have a description of the old Z6800574 belt similar to what I posted in #1? Since the belt guard at the pulley was designed for 5 mm belt. What effect it may have using 4 mm belt?

 

[keilau]

I got another email and a replacement belt today.

Ah, that looks like an old belt got packed in with the fresh ones, I'm not sure how that could've happened. 1/2 of the Mystery solved. Tracking shows me you received your replacement belt this morning. I do expect that to be exactly as described and functioning perfectly for your 125. Obviously, it should have been the correct product received the first time and I do apologize. Again, this is the first and only complaint we've received so clearly something wasn't normal with your order and a replacement corrected the issue.

I measured the replacement belt before I put it on the TD125. It is the correct 502 mm and has the "Thorens" logo on it. The turntable plater still slows down slightly, but much less than with the first belt from Rutherford Audio. I am not sure about the reason, but suspect the narrow 4 mm belt. The TD125 has a bell shape pulley that requires a 5 mm belt which rides in the middle of the pulley. With a 4 mm belt, the belt goes to one side of the pulley, not the middle.

If you are using a new 4 mm belt for your Thorens, can you describe how it differs from the original 5 mm belt?

David Archambault, your thought on this belt width issue?

 

[keilau]

I found this drive belt with the same dimension as the original Thorens part Z6800574 at the Thakker.eu site. It is made by GID, not Thakker. Is it any good?

https://www.thakker.eu/en/belts/on-size/flat-belt-a-160-0-x-5-0-x-0-7-circumference-502-mm/a-83/

Audiofreak71, ehoove, Ilikevinyl, do you all use 4 mm belt on your Thorens turntable?