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Where to start to create a great system

Tinamonster

Tinamonster

New Member
I am looking for some direction. I currently have a system that I partially inherited and partially picked up free curbside. Unfortunately its origins show and it's time to put some cash into improvements. I currently have a budget of $700 and I'm looking for some guidance to where this is best spent.

I'm not looking to limit myself to $700 for the entire system. That's simply what I have for now. So if the recommendation is to live with the receiver and speakers and spend the whole $700 on a new turntable and save up my pennies for the next piece that works too. Or if there is a great recommendation for a special piece of vintage gear that can be had with a little searching for $X that is great and valuable info.

My current equipment in use:
B&O Beogram RX turntable (needs a new stylus)
Sony STR-VX2 Receiver
Baby advent II small speakers (In need of foam replacement)

Extra stuff not currently hooked up:
Akai GX-M10 tape deck
Yamaha CDC-805 CD changer
Teac PD-D700 CD changer

Considerations:

I generally listen to music like Pink Floyd, the Beatles, Nick Cave, Suede, My Bloody Valentine, Parliament Funkadelic, etc. The system would go in my living room and would be turntable-centric for now. I generally am disappointed when systems only sound good loud so I'd like to try to avoid that. I typically listen at only moderate volumes.

I tend to gravitate toward vintage gear all things being equal but it's by no means a hard and fast rule. I don't have vast experience with tubes in home stereos but have always been drawn to the sound of tube based guitar amps and studio preamps so if I could work some tubes in somewhere beneficial I'd love that.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.
 
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You need speakers kiddo. Replace them first....as larger, high quality speakers will give you the best bang for your buck.

Blowing all the money on a TT is insane...that won't amount to squat as far as sonic improvement of your current system. The current TT is fine...just get a new stylus.

After buying some better speakers, see what's remaining in the cash stash and go from there.
 
Yes... Good speakers are what you should focus on right now.

Welcome to AK by the way! Where do you live in O.C.? I live in Placentia.:thmbsp:
 
One thing--stop playing those speakers immediately! Give them a refoam--it's quick, easy and cheap--and then carry on building out your system.
 
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In my opinion the #1 contributor to good sound is room acoustics. So after you get those nice full range speakers invest in room acoustics. Some heavy draperies, cushy furniture thick rugs, book cases, and maybe absorption panels and bass traps.
 
If you don't know already, you'll need to replace the entire cartridge with that Turntable or have the current one rebuilt, as it's a Moving Coil type. The Stylus itself cannot be replaced.

TRC
 
Wow, so much great advice already! I'm new and not sure what the board etiquette is for follow-up questions. For example, I'm curious if anyone has specific speaker recommendations to get me started. Please let me know if this should be separated and posted in the Speaker area.

P.S. ElGato: I'm in Huntington Beach. Thanks for the welcome!
 
We already know what kind of music you listen to so that's taken care of. So how much do you plan to spend on the speakers alone and how big is the room they will go in?
 
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Nice musical tastes!

The B&O turntable has it's fans, and they are nice, but a stylus is going to run you $250, if you can find one.

I got rid of mine years ago. For $75-$150, you can buy a nice vintage turntable from Technics, Pioneer, Sansui and others, and for a little more, perhaps a Rega P2. A nice cartridge/stylus will run you $75 to $200- I suggest, depending on what TT you buy, anything from the Shure M97Xe to the Grado Blue, Silver or Gold, denon DL-110 or DL-160, Audio Technica AT-440MLa.

Speakers? Huge Nick cave dan here. You want a speaker that is going to convey voices naturally.

For $20 in foam, and a DIY attitude (it's easy, trust me) your Baby Advent IIs are an excelent small speaker to start with. Want bigger? Look at Boston Acoustics A150s or 200s, the aDs line, Large Advents, big ARs- there's a few, just to start. All can be had for $50 to $200 for most of 'em.

The CD players are probably decent. Later, add a $150/$200 external DAC and your sound will improve greatly- your toes will curl at how good CDs can sound.

The receiver is probably decent to start with too. Later on down the road, $250 cN land you a nice vintage and powerful receiver, integrated, or a bit more, kick-arse seperates.
 
yah -speakers first

Usually I'd recommend the source as the place to start - but I'd start with the speakers and a re-tip/rebuild on the cartridge.
Personally my advice would be to replace the Advents rather than repair them. The tweeters on the Advents were never great and the woofers were mass loaded to some degree (which worked) but means the surrounds were actually a bit more persnickity in this design compared to standard woofers.Better things have come along in the last 25 years or so.
How well is the B&O turntable working other than the cart issue ? As has been previously noted - the carts are no longer available - so even if you want to do a retip or rebuild - you can't later transfer that cart to anything but a B&O tt. Consider the alternative of a more standard turntable - that can be upgraded in stages ?
 
With a 700.00 budget, I would start with speakers. Seeing what kind of music you listen to, You should be able to find a nice pair of JBL L-100, or pioneer HPM-100s. Just take your time and cruise the local craigslist, and goodwill stores, and even keepin an eye out on trash day, pays off. Remember to buy what pleases (your ears) and have fun doin it.
 
To the OP: what are your thoughts on your current TT? Do you like it? My understanding is that the proprietary stylii on those are no longer made and are very expensive. So, if you like it, keep that in mind. Also, consider what condition the current stylus is in. Do you know? If it's old and worn, you could be damaging your records without realizing it. These are things to think about when planning on upgrades to your system. Immediate gains are of course desirable, but if you are damaging your records, then it's pointless to spend money on anything but a different TT at this point.

The other thing is that you're into tubes--I envy the fact that you have money to actually get a good tube amp. I don't at the moment, and probably won't for the next few years, if ever. The thing is, tube amps tend to be lower powered than SS ones, and so you'll need efficient speakers to go with a tube set up. If you get a really nice set of speakers now without considering that you'll eventually be driving them with a tube amp, then you might end up buying some that you aren't going to be happy with long term.

So, in short, since you have a sizable chunk of money available right now, and are willing to put more than that into your system over time, I'd recommend pulling back and taking a considered approach to building your system. Think first of all about the system you'd like to have, and then research that to figure out what you'll need and how much it'll cost to have it.

Then assess what you have now and how long it will last and which components should be upgraded first. As I mentioned already, your unfoamed speakers are definitely a weak link--by not refoaming them immediately, you are getting bad sound out of them and likely damaging them. It's also impossible to properly evaluate them if they are missing the foam.

The next place to turn your attention to, as I also mentioned, is your TT. If the stylus is worn, stop using it on all records except for beaters you don't care about. Even if the stylus is usable, consider how long you're really going to be able to use the TT, given that stylus replacements are so expensive for that model. Do you really want to keep it long term? Only you can answer that question. If the answer to either question is in the negative, I'd immediately put as much of your $700 toward a turntable and cartride as possible, and possibly put all of it there. (After first getting the speakers refoamed, of course--that's only at $15 investment.)

If the TT/cart is still usable and not wrecking your records, then I'd invest that most or all of that $700 in a tube amp right away. If you want tubes, then it'll be the heart of your system and you should attack that first, as long as you have workable speakers and TT.

Once you get an amp, I'd then look either go after speakers (if the Baby Advents don't work well with your amp) or TT, if you want something other than the BO.
 
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Wow, I am overwhelmed with great advice! I knew this site was something special when I saw the "Cats and Gear" thread and all of your generosity with knowledge and recommendations has confirmed it! Thanks for being patient with me while I puzzle out my plan.

Ok, to answer some questions that have come up...I discovered that SoundSmith sells replacement cartridges with the cheapest version starting at $150. I do like my turntable but I have also never listened to a $700 turntable setup. Will that change my system as much as new speakers? What about a $500 turntable setup and $150 for new speakers?

Goldwax: If I put $150 into a cartridge (which is a minimum to get my system running) and refoam the speakers can I get a worthwhile tube amp for the remaining $550? What about if I put $150 into speakers? Is there anything worth adding with tubes for $400? Or do I really need to spend the whole $700 to make it worthwhile.
 
Tinamonster said:
Wow, I am overwhelmed with great advice! I knew this site was something special when I saw the "Cats and Gear" thread and all of your generosity with knowledge and recommendations has confirmed it! Thanks for being patient with me while I puzzle out my plan.

Ok, to answer some questions that have come up...I discovered that SoundSmith sells replacement cartridges with the cheapest version starting at $150. I do like my turntable but I have also never listened to a $700 turntable setup. Will that change my system as much as new speakers? What about a $500 turntable setup and $150 for new speakers?
Click to expand...

Some say that the most important areas of your system are those that turn one kind of energy into another, so that would be your cartridge and your speakers. That said, there's the source-first crowd, which says that the source is the most important part of the system, since no other component can take garbage that's fed to it and improve it. On the other hand, there's also the speaker-first crowd, who will tell you that you should spend at least half your total budget on speakers. From my own limited experience, EVERYTHING's important, but the two most important (in terms of noticeability) components are cart/TT AND speakers. All of that goes to say that I can't tell you which will change your system more--a $700 TT or a $500 TT plus new $150 speakers. It depends. In some ways, though, the question you're asking is the wrong one, I'm thinking. It's not necessarily the change that will give you the most important benefit NOW that's the prize. It's the incremental changes that will get you where you want to be at some point in the future. I know this is hard to think about without having listened to a variety of systems, so that's perhaps your best next step. Go to some hi-fi dealers and have a listen. See if there are any AKers near you that might let you come over and check things out. (You bring the beer!) And so on.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can approach this one of two ways: either buy a bunch of low-buck gear and get something good sounding but also end up with some mistakes and extra items along the way, or try to take a more considered approach.

I did the former, and while it worked out for me--since I have a system I'm largely very happy with--I also wish I'd known more along the way. For example, though I love my Kenwood receiver, I think in the end, I'll probably eventually want to move to a Sansui integrated with a tube pre. I bought five pair of speakers before realizing that I probably would prefer a pair of Boston Acoustics A200, and that's still with pretty limited knowledge of speakers--more could be attractive me if I'd heard more.

You could do worse than do a mix of what I did:

Thorens TD 160 - $200
AT440MLa cart -$130

and what I'd like to do:
New tube preamp - $400 to $600
Beefy vintage Japanese integrated amp - $100 to $300
Boston Acoustics A200 (or about a million other well-regarded used speakers from the '70s to current day that don't cost more than $50 to $200 a pair)

But you could probably do better, too. It's all relative.


Tinamonster said:
Goldwax: If I put $150 into a cartridge (which is a minimum to get my system running) and refoam the speakers can I get a worthwhile tube amp for the remaining $550? What about if I put $150 into speakers? Is there anything worth adding with tubes for $400? Or do I really need to spend the whole $700 to make it worthwhile.
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Do some searches on Yaqin--definitely within your budget and you'll still have some of your $700 left over.
 
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Welcome!

I'd agree with most of what has been said so far. Since your stylus is shot and your speakers need re-foaming, and these are the most important parts of your system sonically, start with those.

The stylus HAS to be addressed, since you can't and/or shouldn't play records with a bad one. You say you like that turntable, and it is a decent-sounding TT when running right, so I'd say get that tipped for $150 and live with it for now. You COULD upgrade it, but buying a typical $150 TT + cart is likely to be more of a sideways move than an upgrade, and it isn't a bad start as-is, so I'd turn to the speakers after the re-tip.

As for speakers, I'll suggest some of the best-sounding (IMO) vintage speaker brands and models you may wish to consider:

Dahlquist DQ-10s (or DQ-12s or DQ-20s other low numbers in that series).
ESS AMT 1a, 1b, or rock monitors.
Early Infinities with the EMIT tweeters (more possible ones than I'll list: read the Infinity forum threads).
DCM TimeWindows and TimeFrames.
A/D/S (several models; read the threads)
Magnat (if you can find them).
Energy (Canadian brand with some nice models)
AR (esp. 3a and 2ax modelsl avoid the higher-numbered (beyond the 12)Teledyne ones).
Dynaco A25
KLH (Models 5, 17 or 23)
Large Advents
HPM 100 or higher.
Yamaha NS-1000 series.
JBL monitors (numerous models; read up in the threads)
Harbeth (several early monitors, especially).
Spendor ("ditto")
KEF (early models only)

Each of these has their own strengths and weaknesses, and synergy with your gear may make a difference, so there is no one single "right answer". Some of these are better than others, IMO, but they are all widely respected or praised models. Not everyone likes to listen to the same sounds, and no one has heard all the speakers there are, so complete agreement on speakers is virtually non-existent, anyway. I deliberately included a few "East Coast", some "West Coast", some "British" and a few others in that list. There are also other good speakers out there, not on this short list. But this list will give you plenty to learn about and look for, to get you started. If possible, try to audition any gear (esp. speakers) you are considering buying. Perhaps nearby Akers can demo some for you.

Some of those speakers I mentioned tend to go for a little more than your budget, but I included a few like that, because you never know what you may find with secondhand gear; local bargains occur frequently enough to offer hope to the diligent and patient searcher. Most of them cost well within your budget, though.

Once you have good, revealing and musical speakers, you should notice a "quantum leap" in the overall sound quality, plus you'll be better able to hear what effect later changes and upgrades have on your system.

GOOD LUCK! :thmbsp: and do come back and tell/show us what you get, along the way!
 
TRC said:
If you don't know already, you'll need to replace the entire cartridge with that Turntable or have the current one rebuilt, as it's a Moving Coil type. The Stylus itself cannot be replaced.

TRC
Click to expand...

Moving Iron, actually, but the stylus is integrated like a MC.

To the OP - you've already discovered that SoundSmith makes new B&O carts - if you do some searching here you'll find that there is a fair bit of info about their different offerings. Use the Google search available under the "Search" tab at the top of the page for best results.
 
OOooooo . . . what I could do with $700 ! :D

One thing I don't see mentioned is your room layout / size . . . this should influence what you go with for speakers . . .

If it were me, I'd do up that TT . . . next, does your Sony have preouts ? If so, that'll give you LOTS of flexibility down the road (as in TUBE AMP !!)

One of my favorite things to do is run a vintage SS receiver with preouts, since it usually has lots of source inputs, and use a hot rodded console tube amp, preferably Magnavox, as they are easy to come by. a little 6BQ5 P/P Magnavox will give you 12 - 15 W of yummy tooby power.

SPEAKERS . . . I've had those little Advents, and they are great little bookshelf speakers, but if you want to really take advantage of that TT, and any other system upgrades, you gotta go BIG (or small with a subwoofer). Any of the models Arkay mentioned would be SWEET. If you do want to go with tubes eventually, depending on how loud you want your Floyd, you're choices will get narrowed down a bit . . .

Here's my vote for how you spend your money:

freshen up the B & O: $150
low power 70's Marantz (ala 2216): $100
hot rodded Magnavox 6BQ5 amp: $250
KLH 5's or 6's, or 23's: $ 200

AH THE SPEAKERS . . . if you like the little Advents, you will LOVE the vintage KLH's, recapped, with tubes . . . and they have been going for DIRT CHEAP. The $200 figure is 'worst case scenario' :thmbsp:
 
Lots of good advice so far. Things that I'd add for you to consider...

You should take into account room size and layout before you buy any new speakers. Give us an idea of what your room looks like and you'll get better, more precise info on what speakers might be best for your situation.

And before you spend $150 on a new cart for your existing TT, give some thought to how much of a "tweaker" you are. If you are super happy with your Beogram and are the type that's simply content with what you've got, then get the new cart and don't look back. However, if you think you'll have an interest in swapping out carts to experiment with different levels of sound then you will want to consider a different TT. There are LOTS of options in the vintage/used market on really good TT's that will give you a lot more flexibility than the B&O that you've got. For not much more than you would spend on the cheapest cartridge option for the Beogram, you could find a good turntable that accepts a standard headshell and then play around with the multitude of cartridges available.

For your $700 starting budget, you've got a TON of options to choose from as you set up your new system! Keep asking for advice and listen to as many different components and setups as you can. If you can audition something in your own listening space, take advantage of that option! And simply choose what sounds best to you.
 
speakers

I cant believe nobody suggested a nice pair of vintage Altecs, to rock with pink floyd. :yes: spend as much as you can afford on the speakers, you will not regret it
 
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