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Which cart is better?

GD70

GD70

Lunatic Member
ADC XLM MK III or Empire 2300 E/III "Improved".

The Empire cart is on my Technics SL-B2. I've owned it since new from 1977-78. I was given a Pioneer PL-115D from my friend who was the original owner, also from around the same time.

I'm planning to give the Pioneer table to my daughter. Which cart should I keep for my Technics? I probably listen to more vinyl than she will, but I want to introduce her to vinyl and have the TT, and ultimately, she will probably not be as critical a listener as I am.

Thanks guys.
 
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It should be easier to get decent generic stylii for the Empire. That may make it the better choice for your daughter's use, as she may be less careful around the turntable than you will be. Also, IIRC the ADC is a high-compliance cartridge and would do better on whichever tonearm is lighter -- which I suspect will be the Technics 'arm.
 
skriefal said:
It should be easier to get decent generic stylii for the Empire. That may make it the better choice for your daughter's use, as she may be less careful around the turntable than you will be. Also, IIRC the ADC is a high-compliance cartridge and would do better on whichever tonearm is lighter -- which I suspect will be the Technics 'arm.
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Good information!
She's 23, and I think she will treat it fairly well, but your logic makes perfect sense. I'll switch the carts.
 
skriefal said:
It should be easier to get decent generic stylii for the Empire. That may make it the better choice for your daughter's use, as she may be less careful around the turntable than you will be. Also, IIRC the ADC is a high-compliance cartridge and would do better on whichever tonearm is lighter -- which I suspect will be the Technics 'arm.[/QUOT

That isn't true. It's the original XLM and the Super XLM, and i had no problems running a Super on a Technics arm.
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GD70 said:
Good information!
She's 23, and I think she will treat it fairly well, but your logic makes perfect sense. I'll switch the carts.
Click to expand...

23, huh? She's not moving to north Texas anytime soon, is she? If so, be sure to give her the ADC, and I'll be gentleman enough to help her set up the turntable! (Just joking... your daughter is safe. :thmbsp:)
 
Stanton681EEES said:
skriefal said:
It should be easier to get decent generic stylii for the Empire. That may make it the better choice for your daughter's use, as she may be less careful around the turntable than you will be. Also, IIRC the ADC is a high-compliance cartridge and would do better on whichever tonearm is lighter -- which I suspect will be the Technics 'arm.[/QUOT

That isn't true. It's the original XLM and the Super XLM, and i had no problems running a Super on a Technics arm.
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It is true, if you check the vinylengine database - 7g for the arm.
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grottyash said:
Stanton681EEES said:
It is true, if you check the vinylengine database - 7g for the arm.
Click to expand...

Yes for the original XLM The mark 3 is a totally different animal . There is a chart that ADC use to have that showed what tables and arms work with the XLM Mark III You have to remember by the time the Mark III was out ADC was owned by BSR and they did things and marketed there cartridges very differently that when Peter Prichard was in charge.
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I would keep the Pioneer PL-115 and give the Technics SL-B2 to your daughter. The build quality on the Pioneer is better than the Technics. I had a SL-B3 and my friend had the PL-115, back in the day. The PL-115 has a better tonearm, with offset pivot bearings and a horizontal balance weight, Technics doesn't have the offset bearings. The Pioneer has a sub-chassis. The platter and tonearm is isolated from the motor. Plus, the Pioneer mutes the sound at the end of the record before the arm lifts off the record, very nice feature. My friend had a Shure M95HE cartridge on the PL -115, excellent match for the arm.
 
I ordered the belt last night for the Pioneer and when I get it, I'll A/B the two TT's and see which I'll keep, which I'll give her.
I like the strobe on the Technics, wish the Pioneer had one.
Glenn
 
Stanton681EEES said:
grottyash said:
Yes for the original XLM The mark 3 is a totally different animal . There is a chart that ADC use to have that showed what tables and arms work with the XLM Mark III You have to remember by the time the Mark III was out ADC was owned by BSR and they did things and marketed there cartridges very differently that when Peter Prichard was in charge.
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The figure I quoted came from the vinyl engine database for the mark 3. I still think the Technics arms are too heavy - remember, the ADC was designer specifically for the lightweight, SME 3009 type arms. Here's the link http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridg...ts.php?m=ADC+XLM&cm=5.75.&dc=33&search=search
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Ilikevinyl said:
The SL-B2 was made in 1980, that's when I bought my SL-B3. The PL-115 was made in 1977, that's when my friend bought his. You can print a free strobe here. You have to register, which is free.

http://www.vinylengine.com/strobe-discs.shtml
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Yeah, just looked up the manufacture dates, 1979-80 for the SL-B1, 2 & 3. http://www.stereomanuals.com/vintagetechnics/turntables/

I just registered with vinylengine. Thanks for the link.

Thanks for clarifying those dates though. Those were my college daze, I mean days.:D

Glenn
 
The main question would be: Do they have original styli? Both of these cartridges have long been out-of-production.

A cartridge body is only as good as the stylus mounted to it. If the XLM III is all-original, and in good condition, that is a very good cartridge. They are a little on the bright side, and slightly recessed in the mids, but have good detail and spacious imaging. They tend to prefer lighter tonearms, but will work on a Technics. If it has an aftermarket stylus, then it will perform nowhere near as well as the OEM. I have never heard that particular Empire, but I have heard the 2000e/III... I'm not sure how closely it is related to the 2300e/III. The Empire I heard seems a little thicker in the bottom end and low mids than the ADC, but doesn't seem to have quite the depth of imaging, and perhaps a bit of an edge to the upper-mids. Still, a very good sounding cartridge, and perhaps a smidge better in tracking performance than the ADC XLM MKIII. Once again, the performance will not be the same with an aftermarket stylus. Assuming they are still both OEM, I might be tempted to lean towards the ADC as the better cartridge, but it's tough to say. I'd prefer to audition them both!

If they are not original, or if the styli are worn, go with the one that has the better upgrade path, and/or more affordable aftermarket styli.
 
Multiplex said:
The main question would be: Do they have original styli? Both of these cartridges have long been out-of-production.

A cartridge body is only as good as the stylus mounted to it. If the XLM III is all-original, and in good condition, that is a very good cartridge. They are a little on the bright side, and slightly recessed in the mids, but have good detail and spacious imaging. They tend to prefer lighter tonearms, but will work on a Technics. If it has an aftermarket stylus, then it will perform nowhere near as well as the OEM. I have never heard that particular Empire, but I have heard the 2000e/III... I'm not sure how closely it is related to the 2300e/III. The Empire I heard seems a little thicker in the bottom end and low mids than the ADC, but doesn't seem to have quite the depth of imaging, and perhaps a bit of an edge to the upper-mids. Still, a very good sounding cartridge, and perhaps a smidge better in tracking performance than the ADC XLM MKIII. Once again, the performance will not be the same with an aftermarket stylus. Assuming they are still both OEM, I might be tempted to lean towards the ADC as the better cartridge, but it's tough to say. I'd prefer to audition them both!

If they are not original, or if the styli are worn, go with the one that has the better upgrade path, and/or more affordable aftermarket styli.
Click to expand...

That was a great review. Very helpful and will help me when I listen to them both and what to listen for.

They both are original. The Technics I've owned since new, the pioneer my friend owned since new, and it was in storage for at least the last 20 years. It came in the original box, the original owners manual and receipts. I tested it and the motor does work. It took some cleanup to remove the dried, old gooey belt. New belt is on the way. It also came with a bottle of lube oil and will lube it as well.

Thanks, Glenn
 
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