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Which Component Should I Upgrade?

Rob Hamner

Rob Hamner

New Member
I have been struggling with the decision of which component to upgrade for maximum benefit, or if something should be added, like a sub woofer. Music tastes ranges from cool jazz to indie rock and punk.

My system consists of the following:

Yamaha S-AS1000 Integrated Amplifier
Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB Turntable
Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 Speakers
Cheap interconnects
12 AWG O2 Free Speaker Wire

Thanks!
 
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Yeah turntable/cartridge if you listen to vinyl.
Then interconnects. Monster M1 are older than dirt but can be had for 50.00 per meter pair and sound awesome on Yamaha gear.
 
For me it would be the table and cartridge, as the amp and speakers are quite respectable.

Then I would do the cabling, both interconnects and speaker wire. That is a whole spirited discussion right there.

If wanting more impactful bass response, then add a quality subwoofer. A good one can be had for relatively cheap on the used market these days, so that should be an easy box to check.
 
Speakers are 80% to 90% of our sound and your speakers bass response is just a tad below 40hz ,which is far from full range so your missing allot of music ,a new cartridge isn't going to supply speaker range that's lacking a full 20 hz of low end response ,that's 20% of the music your missing right off the top , I'm with member Imral3 on getting a sub that hits down to 20hz ,better off down to 10hz , with low bass being Omni directional,a single well placed 12 inch sub in the 500 to 800 watt range with the capability to recreate the 20hz your speakers cannot produce would be a massive upgrade in Dynamics ,presentation and soundstage , upgrading any other link In your equipment chain could not even come close to having as huge an impact .
 
A lot of guys here have touched on it, and not all will agree, but I'd go for a nice cartridge. I think upgrading your cartridge on a reasonably decent turntable would make a bigger difference than swapping it out for a TT that costs $200 more without upgrading the cartridge in most instances. The frustrating thing about Cartridges is that styli wear out quicker than any other aspect of your system, so people are reluctant to upgrade their carts because, in general, the more expensive the cart the more expensive the stylus. That AT model is adequate while the rest of your system is quite nice. So if budget is a constraint and you primarily listen to vinyl, get the cart now. You're going to be replacing the styli no matter what, and you're not going to get the most out of whatever turntable you buy next unless you have the cart to go with it. Then upgrade the deck when you can. Or, if you have the scratch, do both now.
With all that said, that AT model is meant to look just like the legendary Technics 1200's, but it has neither the torque nor the specs, and the 1200 is a DJ turntable to begin with, and not necessarily a great performer for hifi. Nobody else is wrong in saying that's the next step on the things you've asked about, I'm just a broke guy trying to tell you where you can get more bang for you buck, because the cartridge can always get moved over to the next deck.
Also, somebody with way more experience, years, and dollars into their system is about to tell me why I'm very wrong in the next 90 minutes, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
 
A system is only as good as the weakest link. Doesn't matter how far a speaker extends in bass response if the source component is below par. Matter of fact it will compromise every aspect of sound, from the highest frequencies down to the strength of the bass response, and everything between. Yes a nice cartridge is going to offer a significant improvement, and there have been folks who have adapted the AT table to handle some decent cartridges. However the turntable is the platform to get the most performance out of a quality cartridge, and without a nice turntable you will not get what is possible out of the cartridge. The table is a foundational piece in analog playback. So do not skimp on it either. But if you have a budget to spend, IMHO a quality table gets far better level of performance out of a well selected budget cartridge...which wears, and can be replaced in a year or so with one that is a marked improvement. Linn had shown this for years with their LP 12, where it demonstrated that their best table, with the cheapest tone arm and a rebadged $99 Audio Technica cartridge sounded better then their entry level table with same arm and a significantly more expensive cartridge that people would install.

But that is just my opinion, and I am just a simple country pig, so take it for what it is.

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
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PanheadXR290 said:
Speakers are 80% to 90% of our sound and your speakers bass response is just a tad below 40hz ,which is far from full range so your missing allot of music ,a new cartridge isn't going to supply speaker range that's lacking a full 20 hz of low end response ,that's 20% of the music your missing right off the top.
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Respect the opinion and applaud the effort of looking up the stats. Speakers do make the biggest difference in my opinion as well. This is a great community because for some insane reason we all care enough to look up inanely detailed specs about a stranger's system, but i find it a little misleading to say 20-38Hz is 20% of the sound frequency range, when those speakers produce sound up to 25,000 Hz. I'll add the caveat that I always crave mids and highs and care less about bass, so I won't miss 18 Hz on the low end, and I think there are more significant gains to be made elsewhere in the system.
 
SchweinHaus said:
Respect the opinion and applaud the effort of looking up the stats. Speakers do make the biggest difference in my opinion as well. This is a great community because for some insane reason we all care enough to look up inanely detailed specs about a stranger's system, but i find it a little misleading to say 20-38Hz is 20% of the sound frequency range, when those speakers produce sound up to 25,000 Hz. I'll add the caveat that I always crave mids and highs and care less about bass, so I won't miss 18 Hz on the low end, and I think there are more significant gains to be made elsewhere in the system.
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Let's switch what piece of freq the speakers can produce by knocking 50k off the top end ,the imaging of the speaker would be slow and less detailed hence unacceptable ,I'm not a fan of boomy bass myself but a 20hz response need not be overwhelming ,IMO a proper soundstage should be able to reproduce the entire audio signal a big floor stander is being sent ,not to knock the speakers in any way but at 40hz we're in the range of high quality nearfield speaker systems ,I'm having a hard time seeing how upgrading the cart is going to be as huge an upgrade as recreating 20hz of missing musical cues that tell our ears about the soundstage ,while his cart surely isn't high end as long as it's functioning properly with a good stylus I don't see the benefit ,I'm having a hard time understanding what massive improvements In imaging ,soundstage and detail a new cartridge is going to give when we're 100% positive that supplying the 20hz lacking in low bass response is going to present a ton of new musical cues to the low bass and low mid-range of his soundstage , I don't want to continue past this point because I've given all the info I can ,however if anyone can explain how replacing a properly functional cart will equal adding a missing 20hz of low end frequency I'm all ears .

Have a good night fellas ,it's time for this geezer to hit the rack .
 
First table, then cart. Before worrying about whether the bottom octave needs to be addressed, your source needs to be good enough to supply such LF signals cleanly. A better table will have better isolation, too, which only becomes more critical as frequency deepens.

I like deep bass, too, but to opine that 20-40hz is 20% of music is simply wrong. Pick any instrument. Not easy to find one that isn't mostly midrange. Tympani, okay. But the largest percent of music lives in middle frequencies, not in the extremes. I'm not saying the extremes are unimportant, but just adding LF extension doesn't address the weakest link in the OP's system. Improve the sound from 40hz to 16 kHz first. Getting 100hz to 10k right is the most important, imo.
 
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PanheadXR290 said:
Speakers are 80% to 90% of our sound and your speakers bass response is just a tad below 40hz ,which is far from full range so your missing allot of music ,a new cartridge isn't going to supply speaker range that's lacking a full 20 hz of low end response ,that's 20% of the music your missing right off the top , I'm with member Imral3 on getting a sub that hits down to 20hz ,better off down to 10hz , with low bass being Omni directional,a single well placed 12 inch sub in the 500 to 800 watt range with the capability to recreate the 20hz your speakers cannot produce would be a massive upgrade in Dynamics ,presentation and soundstage , upgrading any other link In your equipment chain could not even come close to having as huge an impact .
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Basically, everything I will say contradicts this theory. Having done enough "pro-audio" work with DJ systems and live-sound production, most pro gear has a 40Hz cut-off filter, so if you want "live sound" in your listening space, 40Hz is plenty low enough. I have several sets of large speakers that go very close to 20Hz, and there isn't much down there (unless you really love pipe organs, and it was recorded properly). Sure, it will "rattle your ass" or "knock you in the chest", but going lower than 30-40Hz is pretty much irrelevant, unless all you listen to are nuclear holocaust explosions in action movies. In most recorded material, everything perceived as a "solid bass hit" is in the 40-100Hz range--most of it around 50Hz.

Back to the basics--garbage in = garbage out. The better the performance of the cart, TT and phono pre, the better your sound will be. You can't get out what you don't put in--that's it--regardless of what is downstream. Your amp and speakers far "outclass" the performance of your current TT/cart, so replace the "weakest link".

As the previous poster stated--low bass is "omni-directional", so that should have ZERO impact on imaging and soundstage--that is up to the mids and highs for "separation" of individual instruments/performers. Granted, it can knock you out of your chair, but run a DSP and truly "flatten" the room with a calibrated mic and listen to what you get.

Sorry for the rant, but I am not a "bass-head" that needs to have my seat "rumble" by improper implementation of subs. The closer to "flat", the better. The closer to +/- 1dB from 40Hz to 16KHz, the better--that is more "realistic" as to what most humans over the age of 12-15 can actually "hear".
 
Everything good now....don't upgrade anything. Just add a sub. If you have never used one, avoid the temptation to turn it too high. Turn down the volume just to the point that it disappears and doesnt draw your eyes to it...
 
Turntable/cart and interconnects. I've yet to see a table with a USB port that was worth interest.

If on a tight budget then look to the used market, lots of great tables were produced back in vinyl's heyday. Contrary to what many here may think I have no brand loyalty, current stable includes AR, Thorens, Mitsubishi, and Kenwood. Currently in rotation are my Kennys, they hit all the right notes lol.

I posted a great table surprisingly still available on eBay at the asking price, the TOTL Kenwood KD550 from the 70's usually goes for much more.
 
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