Which power amplifier fits the following description?

[Kreshna]

To many listeners, JBL 120Tis probably won''t pass as "reference speakers", but they are my reference speakers nonetheless. At least they allow me to recognize the difference between amplifiers. When driven by NAD C375BEE, for example, the bass sounds very strong and punchy, but they also sound pretty harsh in the high frequency region. When driven by Yamaha RX-V663 AVR, top end sounds very crisp and clear without sacrifying bass punchiness, but the entire sound is notably bright and analytical, and fatiguing in the long run.

The best sound is when they're driven by Sansui AU-7900.

My AU-7900.

The bass is not as punchy as that of NAD C375BEE nor Yamaha RX-V663, rather flabby compared to the NAD or the Yamaha. In fact, when driving the 120Tis using the Sui, the bass is always the weakest spot that I always long for a subwoofer or two. However, the niceties of other frequency spectrum outweighs the lack of bass.

The midrange is forward and lively, yet warm, sweet, and organic, very believable. The HF is the probably the best part: they are crisp and clear, yet also smooth and very airy. When driving the JBL 120Ti, I would call the AU-7900 bright, but they are airy-bright instead of the Yamaha RX-V663's analytical-bright. Cymbals sound very crisp and clear, yet very organic and lively due to their airiness.

Now, the AU-7900 will be moved to the bedroom system, where they would drive the similar-sounding JBL L20Ts. The JBL L120Ti, on the other hand, will be assigned to home theater, with Yamaha AVR but separate power amp. The question is: which power amp sounds the closest to my description above? Sweet, organic, and lively mids, and very airy top end. Flabby bass won't bother me, because I'm definitely going to use a subwoofer or two to compensate. It's the treble that I long the most: crisp and clear, but airy instead of etched.

 

[sqlsavior]

Hafler DH-220.

 

[Kreshna]

Hafler DH-220.

I see! I never thought a Hafler would sound very similar to a Sansui, thanks!

But since this is for home theater, do 3-channel or 5-channel Hafler exist? Or perhaps I could just bridge smaller Haflers for LCR power amps?

PS: my center speaker is going to be a single JBL 4410, inverted above the TV to put the 035Ti tweeter about the same height with the 120Ti's 044Ti tweeters.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Belles Model I, but sorry to say you'll have to give up the flabby bass for controlled deep bass backing up those airy highs lol. Go on line for pictures, caps the size of soda cans, only 100watts but greater than 30amps per output.

Good luck finding one, I have two with very close serial numbers and they've found a permanent home.

 

[Kreshna]

Belles Model I, but sorry to say you'll have to give up the flabby bass for controlled deep bass backing up those airy highs lol. Go on line for pictures, caps the size of soda cans, only 100watts but greater than 30amps per output.

Good luck finding one, I have two with very close serial numbers and they've found a permanent home.
View attachment 1212529

Just tried an ebay search, it seems Belles amps are unobtaniums.

How about something humbler? Especially five channel ones? How about modern Marantz power amps? Do they have crisp yet airy top end, especially when driving titanium dome tweeters? Or how about Adcoms?

 

[Grenadeslio]

Just tried an ebay search, it seems Belles amps are unobtaniums.

How about something humbler? Especially five channel ones? How about modern Marantz power amps? Do they have crisp yet airy top end, especially when driving titanium dome tweeters? Or how about Adcoms?

Rare but they do show up from time to time and why I mentioned I've been able to get two.

Worth the patience, even if you get something else now I would still set an eBay search. I've never heard the Model II, it's little brother so can't comment on it's sound signature, but they seem more prevalent.

 

[sqlsavior]

But since this is for home theater, do 3-channel or 5-channel Hafler exist? Or perhaps I could just bridge smaller Haflers for LCR power amps?

I don't know how the Hafler lineup changed after David left, but I understand many folks regard later models as worthy, too. Maybe someone else can chime in about them.

I've enjoyed the sound of my friend's Marantz SR7008, fwiw.

 

[Djcoolray]

If you want something for home theater that sounds great and is killer in two channel stereo....VSX-D1S by Pioneer.

Then do yourself a favor and upgrade your speakers to the JBL L250...

 

[Grenadeslio]

Ok, this article is on the Belles 150, and it came in both two channel and three if you can find them. I do see a lot more of these on eBay but they're not so off the radar price wise. But the article really gets to the heart of just what Belles amps sound like, purchased both of mine for under $350.

http://www.soundstage.com/noisy13.htm

Notice the family resemblance?

 

[Kreshna]

Interesting models, thanks folks.

How about 5 channel power amplifiers, by the way? Are there 5 channel or 3 channel power amps that fit the description? Airy highs and lively mids? I don't know, perhaps Adcoms?

 

[Grenadeslio]

Interesting models, thanks folks.

How about 5 channel power amplifiers, by the way? Are there 5 channel or 3 channel power amps that fit the description? Airy highs and lively mids? I don't know, perhaps Adcoms?

Notice I edited the above post concerning this

 

[Kreshna]

Notice I edited the above post concerning this

Ah I see. So Belles 150 also comes in 3 channel. Thanks!

 

[JoeESP9]

AFAIK Hafler never made 3 and/or 5 channel amps. However, I would choose Hafler or Belles for power over just about any two channel receiver ever made and over any AV receiver without exception.

As for Adcoms, I own two GFA-545's. OTOH, I have heard most of them and the GFA-535 is IMO the best sounding of them all.

 

[musichal]

I had Adcom GFA-5500 and -5503, descendants of the 555, a stereo amp and a three channel model same designs at 200wpc, and I don't think the high frequencies are airy as you describe. That's the only 5-channel design with which I've had experience.

And I agree with JoeESP9 about the 535.

It sounds better to me with Fortes than did the bigguns, which are long gone, and a 535 remains in action.

 

[Grenadeslio]

AFAIK Hafler never made 3 and/or 5 channel amps. However, I would choose Hafler or Belles for power over just about any two channel receiver ever made and over any AV receiver without exception.

As for Adcoms, I own two GFA-545's. OTOH, I have heard most of them and the GFA-535 is IMO the best sounding of them all.

Ya, I have the Mac Daddy of Pioneer receivers the SX1010, best sounding receiver I've ever heard but it's no Belles killer. There's a thread here where I mention connecting one of the Belles to my Kenwood KA7300 and it laughably relegated it to preamp duty, a job it excels at. The Kenny is no slouch as an amplifier either, but the Belles really is special.

 

[JoeESP9]

The best sounding receiver I've ever heard is the Magnum Dynalab MD-209. It's not TOTL. It's true "high end".
Here's a link to a review.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magnum-dynalab-md209-receiver/

 

[Kreshna]

I had Adcom GFA-5500 and -5503, descendants of the 555, a stereo amp and a three channel model same designs at 200wpc, and I don't think the high frequencies are airy as you describe. That's the only 5-channel design with which I've had experience.

I see.

How about Crown? There is a review that says Crown Studio Reference has airy highs. Also, I've read many times about JBL users who power their JBL 4410s and 4412s (titanium dome tweeters, like my 120Tis) using Crown amp. And they like it despite the titanium dome tweeter's less forgiving nature, so I think it stands within reason that Crown makes nice sounding amps.

Thoughts?

 

[musichal]

I worked for a Crown dealer. We also had McIntosh and Audio Research. I'd take either of the latter over Crown any day, and twice on big-day. What I have never heard is a Sansui amp, but I have to believe it has better highs than a Crown. ARC on top would be glorious, imo. But I don't do tubes, though that is where the glory resides with ARC.

Let me hasten to add: I've not heard that Crown amp, their best, I think.

 

[Kreshna]

I worked for a Crown dealer. We also had McIntosh and Audio Research. I'd take either of the latter over Crown any day, and twice on big-day. What I have never heard is a Sansui amp, but I have to believe it has better highs than a Crown. ARC on top would be glorious, imo. But I don't do tubes, though that is where the glory resides with ARC.

Let me hasten to add: I've not heard that Crown amp, their best, I think.

Does Crown sound that bad on the top?

I mean, yes, my Sansui definitely sounds better than Yamaha RX-V663 AVR when tops and mids are concerned (the Yamaha actualy has better bass). But I never though the Sui sounds that special, that it's hard to find similar-sounding amplifiers.

Is airy high and lively midrange such rare quality to find in an amplifier?

I remember reading somewhere that Adcom amps sound like Sansui, but it seems I am wrong.

 

[musichal]

Some were quite bad on top, think many. Others love them. But ARC tube amps are the best I've heard, though there are many members here who've had more experience with more brands than I have. The CJ and Sonographe I heard were great, too.