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Which streamer to pair with my C53?

M

Metallo

New Member
Hi folks,

I’m a vinyl enthusiast and still appreciate the unique sound it brings to my ears.

However, I’ve recently started exploring the world of streaming. So far, the only decision I’ve made is to use Qobuz as my digital source. The main reason I’m venturing into digital is that it’s easier to discover new music. If the music I like is available on vinyl, I’ll always opt for that format. :)

I currently own a McIntosh C53 preamp paired with the MC462 power amp, and I’ve been conducting tests using a laptop connected via USB to the C53.

Am I impressed by the Hi-Res sound? Not really—at least not yet. I suspect that using a Windows laptop for streaming may not be the ideal setup, so I’ve decided to explore other options that won’t break the bank. I’ve read up on Bluesound, Cambridge, Audiolab, WiiM, and several other brands. Naturally, I first looked at McIntosh, but the idea of spending $9K on a music streamer isn’t appealing. :)

Here’s what I’m looking to achieve:
  • A streamer that supports up to DSD512, or at least DSD256.
  • Ethernet connectivity
  • The ability to connect the streamer to my TV via HDMI and browse menus with a mini wireless keyboard or a similar device (open to suggestions).
One question I have: I have no doubt that the DAC in my C53 is of high quality. Should I use it, or might the native DAC in a dedicated streamer be better?
Of course, I’ll test both options, but I’d appreciate any thoughts on this.

I’m still figuring some things out, so if anything I wrote doesn’t make sense, please forgive me. That’s why I’m asking—so I can carefully consider all advice and make an informed decision.

Thank you!
Alex
 
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No need to limit yourself to Qobuz. You may want to buy tunes as files, which you can store on your Windows computer. See an online vendor of classical and jazz, PrestoMusic.com, for an idea of what is available.

Look into Minimserver and Minimstreamer, very inexpensive pair of programs that run on your Windows computer and feed streams to a router or out an Ethernet connection. Instead of a TV for control, you can use a UPnP control app like BubbleUPnP on an Android device to select files and Internet streams to play.

To send out DSD music files, Minimstreamer can run ffmpeg to convert the stream to more common formats. I can't imagine a desire to go beyond lossless formats at say 96 kHz, 16 bit sampling. Lots of music is available in at least 44.1 kHz, and I cannot hear a difference. The real determinant is the quality of the recording and mixing. In general, if you insist on native DSD, you have less choice of solutions.

I use a Denon HEOS2 Link to receive the stream. It has an internal DAC, or it will pass on the digital stream via optical Toslink or coax.
 
WiiM Pro is limited to 24/196 streaming resolution and has no HDMI connectivity. Does have an app though that allows you to interact with qobuz as you asked. Have no idea about the quality of the DAC in your preamp. The DAC in the WiiM Pro is nothing special to my ears.
 
The Roon Nucleus One does everything you asked except video out via HDMI, audio only evidently. But requires an external DAC and annual subscription to Roon. Ive been using Roon for a couple of years and love it to stream Qobuz and play digital files i own from my local network server.
 
Look into Rose audio gear. I have their lesser priced streamer and very much like it. Bluesound is really good for the money. I use my built in dac (McIntosh C2600).
 
IMO the only consideration is Roon. You can use a a $599 MacMini, or $500 Roon Nucleus + $830 lifetime subscription and a streamer of your choice and you’re set.

I’ve had lifetime sub for 4-5 years now and I would say it’s worth every cent. I’ve used Roon with my Sonos streamers, Bluesound Streamers, Heos Streamers and Bowers and Wilkins Formation streamer.

What does Roon work with?

roon.app roon.app
 
Personally I use a WiiM streamer via the DA2 on my MA8950 and am quite satisfied with it. But AFAIK none of the WiiM products support DSD so the brand wouldn't meet your requirements as far as that goes. Maybe take a look at the Eversolo products, which even the lowest tier A6 should meet the list that you gave. Plus I think they are better looking than the WiiM products.

Actually Eversolo doesn't seem to support HDMI video out to TV (audio only) so if that's a dealbreaker you would need to look elsewhere. But if you are OK with using an app or the touchscreen for control it would be worth consideration.
 
Metallo said:
Hi folks,

I’m a vinyl enthusiast and still appreciate the unique sound it brings to my ears.

However, I’ve recently started exploring the world of streaming. So far, the only decision I’ve made is to use Qobuz as my digital source. The main reason I’m venturing into digital is that it’s easier to discover new music. If the music I like is available on vinyl, I’ll always opt for that format. :)

I currently own a McIntosh C53 preamp paired with the MC462 power amp, and I’ve been conducting tests using a laptop connected via USB to the C53.

Am I impressed by the Hi-Res sound? Not really—at least not yet. I suspect that using a Windows laptop for streaming may not be the ideal setup, so I’ve decided to explore other options that won’t break the bank. I’ve read up on Bluesound, Cambridge, Audiolab, WiiM, and several other brands. Naturally, I first looked at McIntosh, but the idea of spending $9K on a music streamer isn’t appealing. :)

Here’s what I’m looking to achieve:
  • A streamer that supports up to DSD512, or at least DSD256.
  • Ethernet connectivity
  • The ability to connect the streamer to my TV via HDMI and browse menus with a mini wireless keyboard or a similar device (open to suggestions).
One question I have: I have no doubt that the DAC in my C53 is of high quality. Should I use it, or might the native DAC in a dedicated streamer be better?
Of course, I’ll test both options, but I’d appreciate any thoughts on this.

I’m still figuring some things out, so if anything I wrote doesn’t make sense, please forgive me. That’s why I’m asking—so I can carefully consider all advice and make an informed decision.

Thank you!
Alex
Click to expand...
I have a Lumin T3 Network Player used with my McIntosh MC312 and C47 and am very impressed with it. Lumin products are designed to help get the most out of premium higher end systems like you have. I've tried multiple streamers in my system that range in price from $500 to $5000 and have found that the two Lumin products that I've tried to be the best to my ears. The Lumin control app is easy to use and provides upsampling options that are actually discernable to the ear. Five or so years ago, I was on the fence with the thought of adding streaming. After multiple trials and the addition of the Lumin, my turntable and CD player are basically dust collectors now. It's great to have multiple music sources to choose from and for now anyway, streaming is the most used source in my home. They are by no means low cost. but if you're ready to take the plunge into streaming and are serious about getting the most out of your system, Lumin products should be high on your list of possibilities. I can highly recommend the Lumin D3, T3, and if you must have HDMI stereo input and AV passthrough and HDMI ARC, the new P1 Mini. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

LUMIN - The Audiophile Network Music Player Family

www.luminmusic.com www.luminmusic.com
 
I am using a Bluesound Node to stream on my internal LAN and from the internet.

It is connected to my Synology NAS that is loaded with FLAC files up to 24/192. For DSD files I'd suggest getting an external DSD capable DAC.

I would also suggest that the PC not be your digital source as computers are quite noisy and I don't believe all of them can handle DSD and probably down convert to some other file codec. Rather, store your files on a network connected solid state drive such as is used in a NAS.

The Bluesound Node does support HDM ARC and it has wireless connectivity as well.

The Node feeds my system to the McIntosh MX151 pre-amp/processor or to the tube pre-amp should I want to listen to music.

Good luck with your project.
 
I am always suspicious of streaming. Movies I stream never matche the quality of DVD disc sound, no matter what the source. Same goes for the video. Friends stream audio as do dealers but the sound never matches what I hear off a CD or record. Some one is always tinker with the sound before they send it along. Even remastered Lp's drive me nuts some times as they are so unlike the original recordings. Oh I admit some time in few cases there is an improvement. Want to hear the analog remix of Deutsche Gramophone Quad recording to LP soon. No digital to spoil things. Ever heard a great direct disc streamed, they don't match either. So I am rather reluctant. My favorite dealer sells Rose and says the sound is rather good to great, but I am on the search for a TD 125 replacement at the moment first.
 
"the [streamed] sound never matches what I hear off a CD or record." A stream is unlikely to match a record, the latter having an RIAA transform that your phono preamp de-transforms. CD's may or may not sound different than the stream, but the streaming goal is not to match the CD; the goal should be to present a good mix, which is partly a subjective thing.

For things I will want to play again, I buy a .flac file from an online vendor, such as PrestoMusic. You can audition the first minute or so before you buy. Like a record, a .flac file can be good or bad in your judgment. Just get the good ones.

Actual streaming, like for free from an Internet radio station, is like old fashioned radio: some songs you like and you go buy it on a fixed medium.
 
So guys...lots of reading which clearly leads to more questions and more thoughts. I realize the maybe connecting the streamer to a TV is not the most user friendly experience, and that using a mobile device is certainly easier.

Here is my question though (and it might be a weird one ):
is it possible to select the music you want from your mobile device and stream via Ethernet?
Essentially, use the mobile device to command the selection, but the actual streaming flows via the Ethernet.

As I said in my first post, the main reason for me to stream is to discover new music that eventually I could buy on vinyl, there fore I want to maximize whatever investment I will do, on a streamer without DAC because I rely on the quality of my C53 DAC.

There are dozens of companies manufacturing streamers, does any of you own or can recommend any reliable brand who makes DACless streamers.

I have seen some while browsing the many manufacturers' sites, but man, there is so much that eventually you forget which one makes what

As always, many thanks for your advice.

Alex
 
Metallo said:
So guys...lots of reading which clearly leads to more questions and more thoughts. I realize the maybe connecting the streamer to a TV is not the most user friendly experience, and that using a mobile device is certainly easier.

Here is my question though (and it might be a weird one ):
is it possible to select the music you want from your mobile device and stream via Ethernet?
Essentially, use the mobile device to command the selection, but the actual streaming flows via the Ethernet.

As I said in my first post, the main reason for me to stream is to discover new music that eventually I could buy on vinyl, there fore I want to maximize whatever investment I will do, on a streamer without DAC because I rely on the quality of my C53 DAC.

There are dozens of companies manufacturing streamers, does any of you own or can recommend any reliable brand who makes DACless streamers.

I have seen some while browsing the many manufacturers' sites, but man, there is so much that eventually you forget which one makes what

As always, many thanks for your advice.

Alex
Click to expand...
A streamer without a DAC is usually called a Network Transport and there are quite a few available. But you might have trouble finding one in the entry level price range. Plus, in many cases, they don't cost much less than a streamer that has an internal DAC.

LUMIN U2 MINI

www.luminmusic.com www.luminmusic.com
 
Metallo said:
is it possible to select the music you want from your mobile device and stream via Ethernet?
Essentially, use the mobile device to command the selection, but the actual streaming flows via the Ethernet.

As I said in my first post, the main reason for me to stream is to discover new music that eventually I could buy on vinyl, there fore I want to maximize whatever investment I will do, on a streamer without DAC because I rely on the quality of my C53 DAC.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is possible. The program that does the actual streaming can be on a PC, for example. Minimserver is an inexpensive program. Connect the PC to a device that has an Ethernet input. The Denon HEOS Link2 is such a device, costing less than half the Volumio you mention. Using the free BubbleUPnP app on an Android device, you make your selection, it flows through Minimserver to the Denon. The Denon has an internal DAC but it also has optical and coax outputs to pass the digital stream on to your DAC.

The same setup can also be used to have Minimserver put the stream out to your wifi home network router, which can broadcast the stream to be picked up by the Denon, which has that capability, too.
 
He is already using a laptop plugged into his C53 via USB, doesn’t need an external DAC. In that setup using a streaming service (example: Spotify) he can use the Spotify app on his phone to create playlists and to select music in real-time as well as pausing and skipping forward/backward. This is a pretty common setup with streaming services.
 
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