Which W70?

[KB Flower HR]

Picked these up yesterday on CL. Wow, Wow, Wow, these are clean, clean, clean! Like brand new. The guy selling them buys estates mostly for the furniture and then sells off everything that doesn't interest him. I was very skeptical on the way to look at these beauties, pics can be deceiving. So brought along my HK 730 and a BT receiver for testing. The first 5 seconds into testing I knew the vintage gods were there in spirit guiding me to one of best purchases this year.

I had major reservations after reading many negative posts on from AK members on past threads on the W70's. Well I really don't get it, these speakers sound wonderful. Sound as good as they look. Even my wife gave a thumbs up.

So the crossover switch on the back has me thrown for a loop. Every pic I see is either 1 or 2 adjustable pots. So anyone know what I have here.

 

[quiet]

Very nice speakers are what you have. I have the W70D with two knobs. They sound good. I don't use them much because they've been over taken by Rectilinear 111, Bozak 302A and Electro Voice Empire.
If they have the little purple tweeter and you see spares get them.

 

[KB Flower HR]

I think they are an older version. The ones I've seen with the purple tweeter have 4 speakers and removable grill. The switch on the back is what has me stumped. I don't see other models like this. Wondering if this was a model that wasn't sold in the US.

 

[KB Flower HR]

I purchased these because they seem to be very efficient and hopefully will work well with my Elekit TU-8200DX 8w tube amp I am building. I have them hooked up to my Carver system right now and I don't think I have the volume up to 1 and it seems a bit loud. Also noted is the awesome imaging these speakers display without much effort in placement (about 6ft apart and a little toe-in). I do think some stands are in order.

 

[drbiggles]

Hey mang,

There are tons, and many more tons of threads on these and other versions of the W70's here. Wharfedale changed things as they moved along. I don't recall a switch on the early W70's. You need to remove the backs and get images of the insides. The woofers and mids will have a hand-written date code on the back of the cones, easy to see. This will give you a good estimate on when these units were assembled. The very early versions came with Alnico magnets on the drivers, and yes the most wonderful paper cone tweeter ever produced. The Super 3. As time rolled by, you'll find a combination of alnico and ceramic magnets. These early versions didn't really have a crossover network like the later models did. Both the woofer and the mid are run wide open. There was just one capacitor for the tweeter, either an 8uF or 12uF, I cannot remember. There is no cover over the back of the mid either on these. After approximately 57 years, the electrolytic capacitors require new ones to be installed. I've restored and rebuilt 2 pairs of these, worked on 2 pairs of the W70d models.

Biggles

 

[gdmoore28]

What Biggles said. And, as he noted, somewhere on AK there is a good summary of the model changes thru the years.

I have a first-series W-70 (no "D" suffix). It's a three-way system with a back box on the paper cone tweeter only, and a single capacitor. The input panel on the back has only the input screws and a tweeter level control - either a potentiometer or an L-pad (I haven't determined which).

GeeDeeEmm

 

[KB Flower HR]

Ok will search for that info. Thanks

 

[KB Flower HR]

Searched this site and found nothing to verify this slide switch crossover model. Hopefully someone is familiar with this configuration and can shed some light.

 

[drbiggles]

Searched this site and found nothing to verify this slide switch crossover model. Hopefully someone is familiar with this configuration and can shed some light.

What exactly would you like to know about it? Its probably just got a resistor on the softer side.

Biggles

 

[KB Flower HR]

I'm familiar with the outlay of the crossover, I am more interested in the specific model and why I can't find another one that has the switch instead of the rotary pot. If you look on the plate it says W70 and then to the right side there is a W. Wonder what this represents. Does it really matter? No, but it is fun to do a little detective work when you buy a new toy. A knowledge base is fundamental to preserving this old gear. I'm always interested in learning new facts about most anything/everything even for things I don't own or have the inkling to buy. But a little fact finding can push me out the door for the next great find.

 

[drbiggles]

Hey,

Ah! Understood and agreed. Unfortunately, i am of no help. A decent guess on the W might be a poorly stamped part of the serial number.

Biggles

 

[Drugolf]

I have the exact same version here. in fact, the serial numbes are close to yours at 701882.
1966.

 

[KB Flower HR]

I have the exact same version here. in fact, the serial numbes are close to yours at 701882.
1966.

Drugolf, thanks for posting those pics. So do you have any idea why the crossover is switched instead of having an adjustable pot? Are these considered B version 70's? Have you touched yours other than opening the back. Appreciate that you chimed in.

 

[Drugolf]

Mine are in the que for a recap, but I just have not been able to get to them. I am sure the switch was all that the engineers at the time felt was necessary. NIt sure if you could put a definite A, B, C etc on them. Whafedale was all over the place with these over the years and there is very little to point at in terms of definite break lines in models. It's like they just used whatever parts they had at the time. It of course got a little more specific as they changed drivers, but even with those seemed to be as they came along.
As an example, the 2nd speaker in my pair, while it appears to be a match at first notice, it isn't. Look through the grille cloth and see the different shapes. And this one is actually older, has the pot instead of the switch, and the binding posts are just screws. Even has a port. Who knew? The original owner said e had them as a pair since new. Makes one wonder if these were an extension of mono days that were put together as a pair or something.

 

[KB Flower HR]

Very strange indeed. The original owner's teenage kid probably had a rocker at the house and blew pops speaker and then ran down to the Wharfedale dealer and replaced it with a new one. I would think that not being a matched set and will sound pretty different. If all the drivers are the same you could upgrade the crossovers to match and add a port to the one enclosure. It is also possible that the different configurations compliment each other in some unexplainable way.

Well I have read a lot of post by Biggles on the small size of the enclosure and the problems associated with a large/exposed mid, it makes me wonder why they would opt to remove the port because it would seem that a port would be a benefit for the small enclosure. Depending how that mid is crossed it could effect the reproduction of the bass. It is a rather larger mid driver. I think that it is more of a mid/bass driver. Could be an explanation for all the complaints about the bass sounding weird or sounding muddled. I would think that would have to do with bad caps or a poorly designed crossover. So taking into mind Biggles thoughts of a new crossover and larger enclosure, I propose keeping the existing enclosure and boxing out the woofer extending that box out the back of the original enclosure and implementing his crossover. This way you keep the beautiful original enclosure, you separate the mid from the woofer and you get the benefits of a modern designed crossover. Would it work? Probably. Would I consider doing this to my unmolested pair? Probably not. Would Biggles?

My pair sound so nice I don't know if I ever want to open the enclosure. There are two upper side screws painted red and I can easily see they have never been touched in 50+ years.

 

[audiosignal]

Very strange indeed. The original owner's teenage kid probably had a rocker at the house and blew pops speaker and then ran down to the Wharfedale dealer and replaced it with a new one. I would think that not being a matched set and will sound pretty different. If all the drivers are the same you could upgrade the crossovers to match and add a port to the one enclosure. It is also possible that the different configurations compliment each other in some unexplainable way.

Well I have read a lot of post by Biggles on the small size of the enclosure and the problems associated with a large/exposed mid, it makes me wonder why they would opt to remove the port because it would seem that a port would be a benefit for the small enclosure. Depending how that mid is crossed it could effect the reproduction of the bass. It is a rather larger mid driver. I think that it is more of a mid/bass driver. Could be an explanation for all the complaints about the bass sounding weird or sounding muddled. I would think that would have to do with bad caps or a poorly designed crossover. So taking into mind Biggles thoughts of a new crossover and larger enclosure, I propose keeping the existing enclosure and boxing out the woofer extending that box out the back of the original enclosure and implementing his crossover. This way you keep the beautiful original enclosure, you separate the mid from the woofer and you get the benefits of a modern designed crossover. Would it work? Probably. Would I consider doing this to my unmolested pair? Probably not. Would Biggles?

My pair sound so nice I don't know if I ever want to open the enclosure. There are two upper side screws painted red and I can easily see they have never been touched in 50+ years.

Agree. If they sound so nice to you now, why mess with them, considering your proposed mods will take a significant amount of work to do, and even then there's no guarantee that they will sound any better - not to mention that the modded speakers will take more room in your house, and decrease in resale value - both negatives. The main potential benefit of your proposed mods is perhaps a little bit more bass, but you can easily take care of that by just adding extra poly fill or an external sub.

 

[KB Flower HR]

Agree. If they sound so nice to you now, why mess with them, considering your proposed mods will take a significant amount of work to do, and even then there's no guarantee that they will sound any better - not to mention that the modded speakers will take more room in your house, and decrease in resale value - both negatives. The main potential benefit of your proposed mods is perhaps a little bit more bass, but you can easily take care of that by just adding extra poly fill or an external sub.

Any sort of mods on that order would be completely experimental and for someone who has a set willing to take the time to give it a go. You could do the mod without damaging the original cab using an internal bass box and a temp back.

 

[Drugolf]

A simple recap wouldn't hurt. Many go with old PIO caps on the Wharfedales. Members Gangtwanger was really into the Wharfedales and had many of us going down tat route wit good results.

 

[KB Flower HR]

Where do you source those caps?

 

[Drugolf]

Ebay typically.

There are a few great threads on the Wharfedales and those caps over in the British Audio section where you can read thru and find some recommendations.