While other tables have come and gone my Pioneer PL-570 stays.
Mike
Mike
Who here owns their ultimate/dream/"grail" turntable and what is it?
- Thread starter Cosmo-D
- Start date
adnick
Addicted Member
Generally take these as personal Holy Grail quests and/or achievements and enjoy the wide spectrum of examples.
Admittedly it depends on how one defines “Holy Grail”, is it personally revered, elusive, unobtainable, unique, mono genesis in inception, or maybe something that some consider mythical or even nonexistent?
If one subscribes to almost any strict variation of the above then obtainability and this thread, is severely limited…
Would rather think of it as tables that have always had a special place in the vinyl playing continuum, special in some way but not necessarily unobtainable, unique or even rare.
The criteria is certainly up to personal preference, which can flow from simplicity in design to technically astute; vinyl in and of itself has technical limitations, so there is a self imposed apex in technology (one can only reproduce what’s contained inside).
Historically my experiences include chasing the greatest technical wonder, most revered, lusted after, table obtainable in the 80s-90s with huge amounts of money spent, wouldn’t have considered anything costing less than 5 figures, or that didn’t have name dropping awe and top audiophile expert reviews, worthy of consideration.
Thankfully my tastes and criteria changed, expense is not a criteria, it’s just a hurdle, and opinions of others are not a weighted consideration.
When someone here describes or shows their Holy Grail table(s) my first inclination is to judge it by my own criteria, but then regardless of my thoughts, accept it as theirs
VR
Andy
Admittedly it depends on how one defines “Holy Grail”, is it personally revered, elusive, unobtainable, unique, mono genesis in inception, or maybe something that some consider mythical or even nonexistent?
If one subscribes to almost any strict variation of the above then obtainability and this thread, is severely limited…
Would rather think of it as tables that have always had a special place in the vinyl playing continuum, special in some way but not necessarily unobtainable, unique or even rare.
The criteria is certainly up to personal preference, which can flow from simplicity in design to technically astute; vinyl in and of itself has technical limitations, so there is a self imposed apex in technology (one can only reproduce what’s contained inside).
Historically my experiences include chasing the greatest technical wonder, most revered, lusted after, table obtainable in the 80s-90s with huge amounts of money spent, wouldn’t have considered anything costing less than 5 figures, or that didn’t have name dropping awe and top audiophile expert reviews, worthy of consideration.
Thankfully my tastes and criteria changed, expense is not a criteria, it’s just a hurdle, and opinions of others are not a weighted consideration.
When someone here describes or shows their Holy Grail table(s) my first inclination is to judge it by my own criteria, but then regardless of my thoughts, accept it as theirs
VR
Andy
Pio1980
AK Member
I don't know what the audible differences between a more modest but well-sorted out TT, like an AR or WT f.i. would be vs an ultimate multibux example.
Maybe @Mister Pig could comment?
Maybe @Mister Pig could comment?
Generally take these as personal Holy Grail quests and/or achievements and enjoy the wide spectrum of examples.
Admittedly it depends on how one defines “Holy Grail”, is it personally revered, elusive, unobtainable, unique, mono genesis in inception, or maybe something that some consider mythical or even nonexistent?
If one subscribes to almost any strict variation of the above then obtainability and this thread, is severely limited…
Would rather think of it as tables that have always had a special place in the vinyl playing continuum, special in some way but not necessarily unobtainable, unique or even rare.
The criteria is certainly up to personal preference, which can flow from simplicity in design to technically astute; vinyl in and of itself has technical limitations, so there is a self imposed apex in technology (one can only reproduce what’s contained inside).
Historically my experiences include chasing the greatest technical wonder, most revered, lusted after, table obtainable in the 80s-90s with huge amounts of money spent, wouldn’t have considered anything costing less than 5 figures, or that didn’t have name dropping awe and top audiophile expert reviews, worthy of consideration.
Thankfully my tastes and criteria changed, expense is not a criteria, it’s just a hurdle, and opinions of others are not a weighted consideration.
When someone here describes or shows their Holy Grail table(s) my first inclination is to judge it by my own criteria, but then regardless of my thoughts, accept it as theirs
VR
Andy
Yup how a person defines the term.
Wonder how long it takes for that definition to change after someone gets a new table to replace the table they posted prior.
For the most part it's OK, we get to see pics of the members tables regardless of how rare or high up the ladder they are.
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LP-THORN
Super Member
The longer it takes for that definition to change, the closer to the destination / cause / purpose you are.
Was the Holy Grail a wood cup ? Gold with precious stones ? Something else ?
Is / was it important as long as the destination was reached or the purpose fulfilled ?
Was the Holy Grail a wood cup ? Gold with precious stones ? Something else ?
Is / was it important as long as the destination was reached or the purpose fulfilled ?
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Yeah that's true. I got nice tables but not really a grail. There was a Walker for sale in Seattle for $20k and it's almost within reach. But I just can't quite commit to a table needing an air compressor to run it. I can't find an ad for it anymore, maybe the seller is taking a break or maybe its been claimed. As I understand it the table is apart, and assembling it is a bit of an endeavor. I still think about it from time to time, thinking if I sold my second table, extra cartridges, extra arm, a spare amp and pre amp....could I do it? But I like the tables I have a lot at this time, and how would I get an airline to it as the garage is at the other end of the house. But it would have been a grail table!
Here was the ad for it. Its expired, so perhaps a person could reach out to the seller and still get it. But I dunno...
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649685356-walker-prosceneum-turntable/
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Before days or possibly weeks is spent with people trying to define what a holy grail table is or what it should be in their mind,let's simplify things and go by the google definition.
Google says a holy grail is, "a thing that is being earnestly pursued or sought after".
I posted my holy grail table earlier in this thread.
My holy grail is not the best or most expensive,in fact many will snub their nose at it and say it's bottom feeder junk.
At 1 point in time I decided I wanted that model for my collection so I set out to find one,it was not an easy task. I searched for about a year and even bought a lesser model because I was beginning to feel I would never find the model I wanted. Shortly after I bought the lesser model,the model I wanted showed up so I bought it...that's my luck
After I did find my grail,a short while later I found another brand model I want...so the search is on. Yes I took on another want,another grail.
So to me,if a person decides they want something and set out to find it,that qualifies it as a holy grail according to google.
I have often thought and said,1 of the wide spread problems with hobbies is terminology. Everyone has their own standards and in their mind they have what they feel the definition should be.
A holy grail is not about rarity,quality or price...a grail is what is set in a persons own mind.
Google says a holy grail is, "a thing that is being earnestly pursued or sought after".
I posted my holy grail table earlier in this thread.
My holy grail is not the best or most expensive,in fact many will snub their nose at it and say it's bottom feeder junk.
At 1 point in time I decided I wanted that model for my collection so I set out to find one,it was not an easy task. I searched for about a year and even bought a lesser model because I was beginning to feel I would never find the model I wanted. Shortly after I bought the lesser model,the model I wanted showed up so I bought it...that's my luck
After I did find my grail,a short while later I found another brand model I want...so the search is on. Yes I took on another want,another grail.
So to me,if a person decides they want something and set out to find it,that qualifies it as a holy grail according to google.
I have often thought and said,1 of the wide spread problems with hobbies is terminology. Everyone has their own standards and in their mind they have what they feel the definition should be.
A holy grail is not about rarity,quality or price...a grail is what is set in a persons own mind.
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Thank you!
By the way,it's nice to meet you along the paths of our journey down the hi fi highway.
Beobloke
Super Member
It's easy to determine if you actually own a true 'holy grail' turntable or not.
Imagine that an eccentric stranger/distant relative leaves you £50,000 in their will with the stipulation that the only thing you're allowed to buy with it is one turntable (and no, if you don't spend the full amount, you're not allowed to keep the change!), do you:
(a) Excitedly buy something new and sell or sideline your current deck
(b) Buy a very swish turntable purely to use up the gift, but never actually unbox it and then sell it and keep your own deck.
(c) Say "No thanks" and keep your own turntable.
If you answered (b) or (c) then you already own your holy grail turntable.
Imagine that an eccentric stranger/distant relative leaves you £50,000 in their will with the stipulation that the only thing you're allowed to buy with it is one turntable (and no, if you don't spend the full amount, you're not allowed to keep the change!), do you:
(a) Excitedly buy something new and sell or sideline your current deck
(b) Buy a very swish turntable purely to use up the gift, but never actually unbox it and then sell it and keep your own deck.
(c) Say "No thanks" and keep your own turntable.
If you answered (b) or (c) then you already own your holy grail turntable.
LP-THORN
Super Member
(b)
For me the answer to that is easy (a)!
But then I don't think my idea of Holy Grail is the same as others, more in as the literal Holy Grail of the highest order of just about un-obtainable. I think I misunderstood all the definitions.
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doctor fuse
Super Member
I do. I think.
Lenco L75S. Sounds fairly good in stock form right now.
I just have to build a massive plinth for it, and mount Rega and Grace arms to it, and I will have a three arm idler drive that will have two permanent LOMCs on it, and the original Jelco arm with replaceable headshell will be used for mono and 78 cartridges. By most accounts, this will rival a Thorens 124 or Garrard 301.
Lenco L75S. Sounds fairly good in stock form right now.
I just have to build a massive plinth for it, and mount Rega and Grace arms to it, and I will have a three arm idler drive that will have two permanent LOMCs on it, and the original Jelco arm with replaceable headshell will be used for mono and 78 cartridges. By most accounts, this will rival a Thorens 124 or Garrard 301.
Audiohound
Empiredude
Before days or possibly weeks is spent with people trying to define what a holy grail table is or what it should be in their mind,let's simplify things and go by the google definition.
Google says a holy grail is, "a thing that is being earnestly pursued or sought after".
I posted my holy grail table earlier in this thread.
My holy grail is not the best or most expensive,in fact many will snub their nose at it and say it's bottom feeder junk.
At 1 point in time I decided I wanted that model for my collection so I set out to find one,it was not an easy task. I searched for about a year and even bought a lesser model because I was beginning to feel I would never find the model I wanted. Shortly after I bought the lesser model,the model I wanted showed up so I bought it...that's my luck
After I did find my grail,a short while later I found another brand model I want...so the search is on. Yes I took on another want,another grail.
So to me,if a person decides they want something and set out to find it,that qualifies it as a holy grail according to google.
I have often thought and said,1 of the wide spread problems with hobbies is terminology. Everyone has their own standards and in their mind they have what they feel the definition should be.
A holy grail is not about rarity,quality or price...a grail is what is set in a persons own mind.
Thank you for this:
"A holy grail is not about rarity,quality or price...a grail is what is set in a persons own mind".
It seems some have a budget to do with what they want and others modestly obtain what suits theirs goals. I would say that we have have purchased our Holy Grail. Some say Maybach, some say Honda or Toyota...If you can afford it, buy it make yourself happy, but don't be surprised when you look at the horizon and you find another "Holy Grail"
LP-THORN
Super Member
Yes, I have seen that
Trucker1964
Member
I hear Grumpy likes this one
Your welcome and thank you also.
Is that fact or an opinion?
This is an English definition, : "something that you want very much but that is very hard to get or achieve"
If something is easy to obtain, and common, that doesn't seem to meet the definition in my mind.
adnick
Addicted Member
It all boils down to which criteria is weighted heaviest in the individuals decision making process…
Your counter point(s) are subjective….one is very subjective, “easy to obtain” this is like saying something is inexpensive/affordable (depends on to whom you are speaking)
Common is a bit easier to nail down, would say a Garrard 301 is common, it can be found on numerous “used turntables for sale sites” however I’m sure many would and do say this is a “Holy Grail” table to them. (again to “whom”)
If a table meets certain criteria, let’s say industry standards:
Signal to noise ratio (probably the most important, but generally not talked about)
wow & flutter ( talked about a lot but, standard is generally exceeded by many manufacturers for the last 60 years)
Speed Variance/drift (not talked about much)
Meeting the above standards generally equates to receiving a HIFI moniker, therefore it could possibly serve as a holy grail table to someone?
Maybe the individual wants their holy grail table to exceed the industry standards, which can be defined specifically by the metrics, and that’s fine.
Individually I’m hung up on how a table presents it’s aesthetically, assuming it meets those industry HIFI standards, aesthetics is a wildly subjective criteria, but I don’t like the Garrard 401, but love the 301
VR
Andy