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Whole-House Backup Generators

Ok FWIW, here`s my whole house standby Generac experience :

First of all, I`m partially paralyzed(left side), and live in NE FL; which is subject to lightning power outages for sometimes hours, and of course hurricanes, and their grid destruction with power outages as long as 9 1/2 days(2004 three storm season.

Anyway, in 1999, with the Y2K concern, I decided that dealing with a gasoline fueled 4K air cooled load management generator was no longer something that I was interested in dealing with anymore.

So I decided to research, and invest in a 25KW water cooled Generac with a 200 amp auto transfer switch & also purchased (4) 120 gal. LP tanks(natural gas fueled generators will de-rate their capacity, so after calculations, figured if careful with my electrical loads, that I might be able to run my house for nearly a month, or more, especially during the winter, baring any genset failures.
I have enjoyed it`s piece of mind and use many times over the 18+ years.

Most recently, while in the bathtub bathing when the grid went off for about an hour, but with in a minute the genset promptly cranked up and after it stabilized(~40 sec.), the transfer switch cycled over to the generator and all household electrics/electronics resumed operating normally, with the exception of my Mac C220 preamp controlled bedroom stereo(I`ve not purchased a pure sinewave UPS for it yet).
And my house keeper came in to my bedroom to advise me that the house was being powered by the genset !!
I said yes, I know, would you please turn the Mac preamp on so I can listen to my music while finishing bathing.

And while my poor neighbors were starting to become uncomfortable, being it was 94`F outside and approaching 5:00PM, and nobody knows how long the power might remain out, I was not concerned, about their lack of foresight.

Though I`m 63 and cripple, I maintain my generator, and bought the complete service manual back in 1999.

I take good care of my genset with WIX oil filters, Royal Purple synthetic oil, , BMW radiator coolant, Optima red top battery, and have only needed 2 service calls since first dealer startup in the spring of 1999. I have disassembled the housing and repainted with Rustolium rattle can primer, color, and clear coat, plus most all attachment fasteners have been replaced with SS when I repainted it in 2005.
The generator has it`s battery maintained/charged by a 240 v feed when not running, along with a separate 240 v sensing line to detect grid failure.

As a Floridian It`s one of the best household investment I have done.. My all day music, safety, and summertime AC comfort are important to me.
And, as to being possibly noisy, I can`t hear it from my driveway, but I can hear scores of air cooled few thousand watt gasoline powered ones running all around me .

No neighbor has ever asked me to please turn it off in the over 18 years in service.

Just my experience folks.
YMMD.

Kind regards, OKB
 
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I’m currently negotiating installation of a whole-house automatic stand-by electrical generator.

I’m NOT an electrician.

I know that many AK members are electricians, and/or have experience with installing a whole-house automatic stand-by generator.

I’d appreciate your feedback about my DRAFT list of requirements below.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

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Existing Systems

House: 1st + 2nd floor has a total of 1,641 sq ft. Plus unfinished basement. Small lot in middle of large city. One person currently lives in house.

Single 200 amp modern electrical panel. (Installed 4/2018)

Central AC, with electric heat strips in indoor air handler in attic (solely to provide backup for hot water boiler). Lennox Signature Series XC 25 (2 ton), CBX 40 Air Handler. Energy efficiency: 26 SEER. (Installed 4/2018)

  • XC25 outdoor unit: Maximum overcurrent protection (amps): 25 amp. (It’s on a 30 amp breaker)
  • Indoor (attic) unit: CBX 40 Air Handler Maximum overcurrent protection (amps): 15 - However, I’m confident that this spec does NOT include the optional electric heating strips that are installed. (It’s on a 60 amp breaker.)
Lochinvar 84.1% Boiler CBN 135 (natural gas). 2 amp (electronic controls and circulating pump). (Installed 12/13/2023)

Electrically heated floor in kitchen, breakfast, bath.

Planned (as part of bathroom remodel): electrically heated floor in upstairs bathroom.

One medium-size refrigerator. No separate freezer.

Electric stovetop / oven. No microwave.

Electric clothes dryer.

No sump pumps.

No electric coffee maker. (I heat water on the stove-top to make coffee.)

Window AC in breakfast room is rarely used, and would not be used during power outage.

Natural gas water heater.

During extreme cold weather (below zero), I run three 1,500 watt electric heaters in the unfinished basement, to keep pipes from freezing. 4,500 watts / 120 VAC = 37.5 amps max. (I could run only 1 or 2 heaters when the generator is running.)





Requirements

Vendor must be licensed and insured. (I‘ll require an ACORD form from vendor’s insurance provider.)

Vendor shall acquire (i.e., “pull”) all required building, electrical, and plumbing permits.

Kohler 26RCAL-QS50 Standby Generator 26KW 120/240V Single Phase with Cold Weather Kit, RDC2 Controller, 200 amp service entrance-rated Model RXT with combined interface/ load management board and corrosion-resistant NEMA 3R aluminum enclosure.

I would prefer that the cold weather kit for Kohler 26RCAL-QS50 generator be factory installed. Is there a down-side to field installation of the cold weather kit?

Whole house backup vs. only critical circuits.

Whole-house surge protector that protects from surges caused by utility company or Kohler generator.

Battery: Ground Negative, Volts (DC) 12, Battery quantity 1, Recommended cold cranking amps: (CCA) rating for - 18_C (0_F) 500, Group size 51

Kohler® OnCue® Plus Wireless Radio Kit For RDC2 / DC2 / VSC Controllers.

Standard color Kohler 26RCAL-QS50 generator cabinet (Cashmere), or one of the grey colors (e.g., Pigeon Gray, French Gray Linen)

Concrete mounting pad.

Vendor must engineer, furnish, and install any other components required for installation of a Kohler 26RCAL-QS50 Standby Generator that meets industry standards and workmanlike installation quality for my house.

Duplex 120VAC convenience outlet installed near the electrical panel in basement. (This is unrelated to generator installation – however since electricians will be on-site, why not save a separate trip.)

Annual maintenance program by vendor. (Or, vendor could simply send annual reminders for service.)



Optional (Pricing listed separate.)

Kohler states: Battery heater for Kohler 26RCAL-QS50 is recommended below 0 degrees Fahrenheit. What is vendor’s recommendation? (In Kansas City we sometimes have temps below zero.)

Extended Kohler 10 year Warranty for generator.

What equipment is needed for easy conversion from utility company (Spire) natural gas (“NG”) to liquefied petroleum gas (“LPG”) bottles? (Page 29 of the Kohler Installation Manual appears to be relevant.) NG shut-off valve? LPG hose/regulator? (Am I correct that the Kohler 26RCA comes with an LPG orifice and a NG orifice?) What other equipment is required? Which required parts come standard and which are optional? (My thought is that if commercial utility natural gas and electricity is lost, I could heat the house via electricity from the generator running off LPG cylinders - i.e., heating strips in AC unit’s indoor air handler, heated floors, and three 1,500 watt portable electric heaters in unfinished basement.)

Would a vendor who delivers LPG tanks likely be able to do so in an emergency situation where natural gas service has failed? (Or, would they be overwhelmed with requests?)



Questions

How many factory trained technicians does vendor have for installation of the Kohler 26RCAL-QS50?

How many factory trained technicians does vendor have for repair of the Kohler 26RCAL-QS50?

Does vendor have a spare parts inventory in KC for the Kohler 26RCAL-QS50? (I’m concerned about this because one month ago I had a new boiler installed. I’ve been waiting more than a week for the vendor to obtain parts for repair.)

Is vendor an authorized dealer for the Kohler 26RCAL-QS50?

Is vendor authorized to perform warranty work on the Kohler 26RCAL-QS50?

How many Kohler residential whole-house generators has vendor installed?

What is vendor’s lead time to install a Kohler 26RCAL-QS50?

Does my existing gas meter provide adequate natural gas flow to accommodate a generator, or must it be up-sized? Must I call Spire (natural gas utility company)? (Generator: 290 CFH max)

In the event that Spire natural gas service fails, it would be nice if generator vendor has a disaster plan for its whole-house generator customers. Can the generator be converted relatively quickly/easily to run off of LP tanks? Could vendor do the conversion from natural gas to LP for the generator on an emergency basis? Does the vendor have a plan to help coordinate with a provider of LPG cylinders?

If the Kohler generator’s battery fails, could I jump start my Kohler generator from my vehicle jump-starter? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09DS1BXBF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
 
You have a lot of detailed requirements and questions, that are difficult for me to even think about answering !

First of all which I have zero experience with any Kohler brand standby whole house, or otherwise, capable gensets, being all my experience since 1999 has been with the Generac brand liquid cooled 25 kw auto switch over LP fueled type, that my house, and my inherited from my parents, and my long time friend decided to get several yrs. after my purchase and installation of mine.
Secondly I`m unaware of any easy means of quickly converting from NG to LP, or back, as each requires different gas fuel type conversions at the engine`s carb, plus, NG fuel`s BTU output is less than LP, and has to be taken into consideration for the total kw output is chosen, as an example, my Generac brand 25 kw rated on LP fueled genset`s owner`s manual states when this unit is fueled by NG that it`s output power drops to 20 kw !

I also have 99% maintained both of mine, while my friend, who is not mechanically inclined use`s the vender who sold and installed his to maintain it, at what yearly expense rate, I`m unaware !

Also, I physically mounted (secured) both of mine, after the nearly 1000 lb. gensets were placed on their respective concrete pads, and paid my, currently used at that time, trusted electrician to wire up both of my gensets and their automatic transfer switch boxes.
And I FWIW, chose to purchase (instead of renting) my own multiple 120 gal. LP gas tanks, and paid a local LP gas company to hook up the gas lines & regulator to the gensets.
By my choosing the ownership of my tanks, I was free to choose from 4 different local LP providers whoever gave me the best price on LP when it was time to fill up, whereas when one rents them from a gas company, no other LP gas company can or will fill them !
My house is totally electric, and there is no nearby NG pipe lines, so in my case (4) 120 gal. LP storage tanks was my only fueling choice, with the 3.5 ton heat pump and water heater being my biggest electrical consuming appliances, and helped define and select the 25kw genset selection choice, as I also didn`t wish to play electrical load management, like I had to with my 7 kw gasoline fueled portable Coleman, which I still retain for backing up the whole house backup genset.
I`m quite happy with my 25 yr. old choice of genset`s brand and output capability for all these yrs.

And I truly love it when I`m walking through my house, especially a night and the power grid goes down, and all I need to do is freeze, and wait for around a minute and my house`s power is restored, which in my case is very important, being I`m left side partially paralyzed and live by myself !
Your requirements are going to be different than mine, so do some research for what choices folks are using around your area, and their experiences, good/bad !

HA!!!, I just noticed that I posted this in 2018, well I guess I should have scrolled up to the top, before going to the trouble of basically posting a repeat !
Good luck with this, robert_kc
 
Not with natural gas mine runs on propane. Most WHG have a to switches to flip or mechanical devices to switch between for type of fuels. One the major brands sold my the big box hardware stores was used at the Bar/Saloon up the road. It did not last long from too much usage is my guess. The Saloon owner replaced the Generac WHG with the WINCO. It been working like a champ for months. Note: Our community is off the grid and we all live on Solar/Battery power and cloudy days mean WHG's are used a lot.
 
hendertuckie said:
Not with natural gas mine runs on propane. Most WHG have a to switches to flip or mechanical devices to switch between for type of fuels. One the major brands sold my the big box hardware stores was used at the Bar/Saloon up the road. It did not last long from too much usage is my guess. The Saloon owner replaced the Generac WHG with the WINCO. It been working like a champ for months. Note: Our community is off the grid and we all live on Solar/Battery power and cloudy days mean WHG's are used a lot.
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Both of my 2 house`s, late nineties (25 yrs. old purchased, 25kw WHG, gas feed to the carb. needed to be changed for LP, as they came from Generac default configured for NG.
I don`t know what model Generac was being used at the bar/saloon that didn`t hold up, but my 25kw liquid cooled model ran 24/7 for 9 &1/2 days when 3 hurricanes blew through NE. FL. in 2004 providing me with the same safety and comfort, as I normally had while on the grid.
It use`s a reliable straight 4 cylinder Mitsubishi SOHC 1.5 liter ~60 HP engine spinning at 3600 RPM, with no issues with them other than 2 wet cell standard car batteries having to be replaced after both exploding when the genset cranked up (once when manually cranked, and one time when the grid went down for a short time during a strong lightning storm).

Since the last starting battery failure, I went over to the Optima Red top AGM over 10 yrs. ago, and last yr. and when I went to test the genset, with the threat of a approaching hurricane, and the installed Red Top informed me by not turning over the engine, that it had given me all it could because it`s date of purchase and installation was over 10 yrs. which I think is a ultra exceptional value, and justified the pricy cost of Optima brand AGM.

I maintain my 2 house`s (2) 25 yr. old identical gensets, and have only had to have 1 dealer service call to each over those years, and quite satisfied with my purchase choice and their performance.

I`ve been informed by local company multi-brand WHG installers that the more recent WAF vision friendly (designed to resemble heat pump compressors) air cooled versions don`t hold up (overheat shut down) here in NE. FL. when having to run very long during a very (water heater, multi ton HVAC, electric stove diner cooking, etc.) hot day, if the folks in the house don`t curtail their energy consumption during the grid down event, which makes me very happy that I went with the industrial looking liquid cooled 1999 model, as no such power use restrictions are imposed on me !
 
@Bill Ferris, Many folks in our tiny community use Generac Backups with no issues the Saloon over used generator. I don't think Generac was designed for the commercial usage. I went with the WINCO over Consumer Report's highly rated "Champion Home Backup Generator" for a simple reason. The Saloon owner use to own my cabin and is very similar with system, also he's a retired Electrical Contractor.
 
A good friend/customer of mine works on generators for a living. He says that although Generac used,to build quality gen sets, they succumbed to the price wars and started using whichever generator ends were the cheapest. That, and there were no reputable people around to repair/rebuild them.

Don't know how accurate that is. I have an old Onan 12.5KW 3PH diesel unit that is bulletproof.
 
I'm contemplating a small wind turbine as a double-redundant backup to my solar/battery storage in my next house. I considered a backup diesel generator, but don't like the idea of storing diesel in an underground fuel cell. But I've only done casual research at this point.
 
Bodhi1 said:
I'm contemplating a small wind turbine as a double-redundant backup to my solar/battery storage in my next house. I considered a backup diesel generator, but don't like the idea of storing diesel in an underground fuel cell. But I've only done casual research at this point.
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LP has unlimited storage life, and maintains it`s full BTU without any degradation, nor does water condense within it`s tank containers, diesel fuel doesn`t, and bacteria likes to setup shop and thrive in diesel fuel.
I will say this for the same connected generator to engine delivered kilowatt output, the power band/torque of a properly running diesel gensets can run at lower RPM, like 1,800.

And I know that there are 4 different LP companies that can and will quickly top off my genset`s (4) 120 gal LP tanks that are located within 12 miles distant of my address, but I haven`t seen any fuel oil trucks anywhere in my area in a very long time, though that may be different up north.
 
Bill Ferris said:
LP has unlimited storage life, and maintains it`s full BTU without any degradation, nor does water condense within it`s tank containers, diesel fuel doesn`t, and bacteria likes to setup shop and thrive in diesel fuel.
I will say this for the same connected generator to engine delivered kilowatt output, the power band/torque of a properly running diesel gensets can run at lower RPM, like 1,800.

And I know that there are 4 different LP companies that can and will quickly top off my genset`s (4) 120 gal LP tanks that are located within 12 miles distant of my address, but I haven`t seen any fuel oil trucks anywhere in my area in a very long time, though that may be different up north.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, are you saying you own a generator that runs on normal unleaded petrol, or LP gas in lieu of diesel? And I just had a couple of questions...What brand generator do you use/recommend? What is your opinion of farm-size wind turbines as a second/backup source of power? And finally, in a future where we face potential fuel restrictions in a ULEZ environment, which fuels can you store safely underground on your farm/ranch other than LP gas? What about PULP? Cheers.
 
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hendertuckie said:
@Bill Ferris, Many folks in our tiny community use Generac Backups with no issues the Saloon over used generator. I don't think Generac was designed for the commercial usage. I went with the WINCO over Consumer Report's highly rated "Champion Home Backup Generator" for a simple reason. The Saloon owner use to own my cabin and is very similar with system, also he's a retired Electrical Contractor.
Click to expand...
Them Winco generators are made near me

Le Center, Minnesota
For over 50 years
 
Bodhi1 said:
Just to clarify, are you saying you own a generator that runs on normal unleaded petrol, or LP gas in lieu of diesel? And I just had a couple of questions...What brand generator do you use/recommend? What is your opinion of farm-size wind turbines as a second/backup source of power? And finally, in a future where we face potential fuel restrictions in a ULEZ environment, which fuels can you store safely underground on your farm/ranch other than LP gas? What about PULP? Cheers.
Click to expand...
No, I`m LP fueled only, and that would still be my only genset fuel choice today over diesel, as I have happily experienced with my whole house capable auto switch over genset since its purchase in 1999.

My tanks belong to me, and are gas company checked and recertified for a nominal fee, every so many yrs. before they will top off them.
My (4) 120 gal. LP tanks are above ground and sited along the south side of my attached car garage`s concrete block wall, and can`t be seen while setting on the back porch, or from the street, but can be easily accessed and filled from the gas Company`s tank truck.
I currently have no opinion or experience with wind turbine electrical power generation.IMG_2355.jpg
 
mkane said:
How much & how long will a genset last?
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Well, my total investment with the complete electrical connection work needed, and my choice to purchase new, not reconditioned for sale LP tanks, and the all 4 being filled to only 100 gal. each, as required for thermal expansion safety consideration, in 1999 prices, was, and I`m guessing here, was around $12,000.00 USD.

This doesn`t include various modifications/improvements that I made to the genset`s setup`s engine, transfer switch equipment shortly after purchase afterwards.

It is difficult to predict any given genset`s life cycle, as there are too many variables are involved, but my Generac 25kw liquid cooled genset is still operating fine and powering my house after 25 yrs. with "I`m guessing here" close to, or more, 500 operating hrs. on it`s control panel`s operating hr. meter, which may not seem like a lot, but my genset`s provided 1.5 liter straight 4 cylinder SOHC Mitsubishi engine operates @3.600 RPM to provide the needed power curve HP and the required 60 Hz. frequency needed for its LP fueled max 25kw output rating.
 
mkane said:
Nice sized engine. I had no clue they were that big.
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There are bigger (V6/V8) Generac brand liquid cooled engine models readily available for higher kw output gensets.
There is a upper level limit of horse power size restrictions for the air cooled versions, that folks are drawn to these days, because they don`t want a permanently installed genset to look industrial, but something that looks more like a HVAC heat pump compressor mounted on the side, or back yard, usually dictated by the WAF. (form before function!)

But as I`ve mentioned here, I`m told that the air cooled versions installed here and around NE. FL. area by the multi brand genset service techs are finding that the air cooled installed versions often have a problems from overheating and shutting down to protect themselves, when asked to power a home on very hot days, which is not very uncommon in my area.

My liquid cooled 25kw has never shut down no matter how hot the outside temperature was, and long it ran, when the grid went down on a hot summer sun shinning day.

I also prefer to not feel the need to turn off any of my normally grid operating house electrical circuits (load shedding, as it`s commonly referred to), though I did raise my 3.5 ton HVAC`s thermostat 1 degree once back when I was on my genset during 2004`s three hurricanes that trashed my area`s grid, while on generator for 9 &1/2 days, because my very elderly father who was staying with me during the multi-hurricane event accidently messed his bed, so I had to not only manually turn on and run the electric water heater off it normally running on timer, but the washer machine, and dryer had to be also run so I could remake the guest bedroom`s bed, and electric dryer consumes a good amount of current during the drying cycle, with my house`s windows all boarded up, the dryer`s waste radiant heat elevated the house`s temperature and naturally affected the heat pump`s cycling, and I wasn`t sure if after the storms blew over, if and when I could get my LP tanks refilled, as all the streets were pretty trashed with trees, and or large branches, downed power, phone, and cable TV lines, etc. so I conserved some of my electrical consumption without making my father and myself uncomfortable with elevated temperatures and humidity, as the situation was already stressful enough!
 
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